Buriram Expats
Buriram Province - General Category => Isaan Thai Visa => Topic started by: CO-CO on August 06, 2017, 11:37:44 AM
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Just thought I would start this topic to record the cases of corruption at Buriram immigration.
Three stories from the last few weeks.......
1. 84 year old who was charged 16,000 Baht for his extension because he was 3,000 Baht p.m. short on income at current rates.
2. Tried to charge 3,500 Baht for someone who was getting "close to the minimum income" for his marriage extension.
3. Someone did a one month extension and was offered a retirement visa (no need to show funds) for 36,000 Baht.
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4. 2000 Baht for NOT doing a house visit - Yearly Extension - Marriage.
Not me. Not sure if this was an isolated case, sincerely doubt it.
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What concerns me is that they have become proactive with their corruption.
Greed tends to make corruption endemic.
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Approx 3 weeks ago. Friend of mine lives in Nong Ki. Applied for extension based on marriage. Went to Bangkok Bank for letter but had to wait for a day. He was due to go on a trip the following day so went and applied for extension without the bank letter and just had bank book showing seasoned 400,000. daft in my view and should of waited for letter). However, Buriram refused marriage visa, fined him 24,000 for not having bank letter and issued retirement visa with just the 400,000 showing.
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:D :D :D :D :D :D
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I wonder how many of these occurrences happen due to lack of communication intended or not intended.
I think most people are aware that there are good English speakers at Buriram immigration. I am aware that most people prefer to take their wife. I understand that wife's presence is essential in some matters but also non essential in others.
I, personally, have no need for my wife to attend any time I need to go to immigration and therefore don't take her. If I happen to get a non English speaking official then I communicate in Thai.
How many times, I wonder, do the officials suddenly lose the ability to speak English and turn to speaking to the wives in Thai?
Thai people in general, especially women, do not like confrontation and in particular with government officials. How many of these "fines"/"payments" have been requested/suggested only for the wife to panic, translate and come up with the word " you must" instead of "if you want to". The two words in Thai language are, after all, fairly similar. I'm not saying it is the lady's fault but that rather she could have been coerced.
As an example, I doubt very much the 24000 baht was a fine for not having a bank letter. It was more likely an offer to arrange an extension based on retirement as the marriage extension could not be completed because of incomplete documents. Was the applicant on his last day and therefore in need of help from immigration which, in a way, he was offered?
As an aside, I'm sure many immigration offices around the country know what happens in offices near the sea. I guess they would quite like a slice of the proverbial cake.
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I have witnessed many times Farangs slipping ฿1000.- notes across the table, even once when the guy was doing a 90 days.
Is it any wonder Immigration Police start to think about money when we come in?
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I have witnessed many times Farangs slipping ฿1000.- notes across the table, even once when the guy was doing a 90 days.
Is it any wonder Immigration Police start to think about money when we come in?
No excuse for corruption though, is it.
Until this country sheds it's corruption culture it will lack credibility in the 'first world'. MANTALUNG Thais are probably not bothered about changing - some Farangs are equally comfortable with that.
Look at Singapore if you want a corruption free blueprint.
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As an example, I doubt very much the 24000 baht was a fine for not having a bank letter. It was more likely an offer to arrange an extension based on retirement as the marriage extension could not be completed because of incomplete documents. Was the applicant on his last day and therefore in need of help from immigration which, in a way, he was offered.
I don't think he was on his last day although had to go to Bangkok the day after he was visiting Immigration and was impatient to have the visa extension completed.
Although I take the point that it could be considered a payment for assistance as opposed to a fine for not having the bank letter, it is still a very strange approach.
Whether applying for the extension based on marriage or retirement if based on money in the bank, a letter from the bank would still be needed.
If the payment was being taken, however it is viewed, why give a retirement extension as opposed to the requested marriage extension. His records if ever audited would now show no bank letter and also only 50% of the funds required.
He's a friend and I'm glad he has his visa however for those of us who make sure we meet the requirements or at least make every honest effort to do so, it grates a bit that none of those requirements actually matter if you have the means to pay.
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It has been my experience that Thailand immigration will hold you to strict requirements. In my case an extension was denied because my bank money was only seasoned in a single account for 85 days. It did not matter it covered 4 different months, or that the money was proven to be in a different Thailand Bank account for more that 5 days previous to the 85 days, they demanded 90 days in a single account. I waited 5 days and came back, and was approved.
So if you go to immigration with your ducks in a row you should get what you need without graft. However, if you have issues it appears that you can fix those issues and come back; or maybe pay some over the counter (OTC) money getting the issue fixed now. Or maybe you can pay a visa agent 15,000 baht to fix everything for you (but you have to keep using that agent for subsequent extensions).
From my standpoint I prefer the OTC option. Now maybe Singapore has no GVT corruption, I would be surprised if that was true, I believe Government Corruption is a redundant term. Even the USA that has all kinds of anti corruption laws they let a US Senator off scott free for drowning his GF and a presidential candidate that used a personal email server to send classified US sensitive data avoid legal consequenses.
With my last extension I went to BI by my lonesome, but had my paperwork correct per my dummy thread, and I walked out with a new extension.
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I'm with Starman on this.
I imagine all these stories, if true, are misunderstandings due to poor preparation, communications failure and or wife panic.
However it is very interesting that all the stories are apochraphol.
Not one is from the actual victim of the 'corrupt, thieving b4stards'.
We have an "84 year old", a "someone who", a "someone did", a "not me", and a "friend of mine".
Are these people not capable of posting themselves? Or is it that this is just the usual nonsense passed around by drunks in bars.
While KCI tried to rip me off years ago (and I posted about it on here) since BI has been open, I have had nothing but quick courteous service, with a smile and a very happy wai, if I decide to offer 100 Baht for coffee.
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As an example, I doubt very much the 24000 baht was a fine for not having a bank letter. It was more likely an offer to arrange an extension based on retirement as the marriage extension could not be completed because of incomplete documents. Was the applicant on his last day and therefore in need of help from immigration which, in a way, he was offered.
I don't think he was on his last day although had to go to Bangkok the day after he was visiting Immigration and was impatient to have the visa extension completed.
Although I take the point that it could be considered a payment for assistance as opposed to a fine for not having the bank letter, it is still a very strange approach.
Whether applying for the extension based on marriage or retirement if based on money in the bank, a letter from the bank would still be needed.
If the payment was being taken, however it is viewed, why give a retirement extension as opposed to the requested marriage extension. His records if ever audited would now show no bank letter and also only 50% of the funds required.
He's a friend and I'm glad he has his visa however for those of us who make sure we meet the requirements or at least make every honest effort to do so, it grates a bit that none of those requirements actually matter if you have the means to pay.
A marraige extension would require authorisation from Korat and therefore cannot be done with incomplete paperwork. Hence a retirement extension was offered and the bank letter can be "lost".
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I think a little unfair to suggest that all second hand information is incorrect and that it's only true if posted first hand and the individual concerned has chosen to be a member on this forum. I meet many more expats who are not BE members than are. I'm also able to distinguish between drunken barstool bullshit and sober accounts of a friends experience.
I fully agree that in many cases these situations occur because individuals may not have met or understood requirements. Personally I always try to prepare well and leave sufficient time to make any corrections necessary and to date haven't had an issue at ether KCI or Buriram.
It seems to me that the vast majority of BE members make every effort to understand and comply with the published rules relating to their individual visa requirements which is why we don't have issues.
In the case of my friend, who wasn't drunk and definitely now has a retirement extension stamp in his passport with only 400,000 baht showing, he was naive and daft to show up without the bank letter. His wife was with him, maybe she did feel pressured, maybe she didn't understand but surely it is up to the Immigration Officer to take an honest approach in solving the problem.
When Immigration started all the home visits here they were quite able to extend expiring visa extensions for 2 weeks to allow that visit to take place. That sort of extension would be appropriate for situations where an applicant needs to correct something. It wouldn't be unreasonable to charge a small amount for that grace period.
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I think a little unfair to suggest that all second hand information is incorrect and that it's only true if posted first hand and the individual concerned has chosen to be a member on this forum. I meet many more expats who are not BE members than are. I'm also able to distinguish between drunken barstool bullshit and sober accounts of a friends experience.
I fully agree that in many cases these situations occur because individuals may not have met or understood requirements. Personally I always try to prepare well and leave sufficient time to make any corrections necessary and to date haven't had an issue at ether KCI or Buriram.
It seems to me that the vast majority of BE members make every effort to understand and comply with the published rules relating to their individual visa requirements which is why we don't have issues.
In the case of my friend, who wasn't drunk and definitely now has a retirement extension stamp in his passport with only 400,000 baht showing, he was naive and daft to show up without the bank letter. His wife was with him, maybe she did feel pressured, maybe she didn't understand but surely it is up to the Immigration Officer to take an honest approach in solving the problem.
When Immigration started all the home visits here they were quite able to extend expiring visa extensions for 2 weeks to allow that visit to take place. That sort of extension would be appropriate for situations where an applicant needs to correct something. It wouldn't be unreasonable to charge a small amount for that grace period.
The grace period for a home visit is/was part of the process. I believe it is an "under consideration" stamp and is for 30 days.
Had your friend known, he could have requested a 60 day extension based on being married. It costs 1900 baht.
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Starman, and that's the point isn't it. That option should have been offered to him by the immigration official. Set process to fit the circumstance at a reasonable fee.
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Starman, and that's the point isn't it. That option should have been offered to him by the immigration official. Set process to fit the circumstance at a reasonable fee.
I agree it should have been offered. It is something that had been offered to me in the past so it does happen.
At the same time, your friend seems to not know much about the process. With social media, forums and the immigration website at our fingertips there really is no excuse.
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Starman, and that's the point isn't it. That option should have been offered to him by the immigration official. Set process to fit the circumstance at a reasonable fee.
I agree it should have been offered. It is something that had been offered to me in the past so it does happen.
At the same time, your friend seems to not know much about the process. With social media, forums and the immigration website at our fingertips there really is no excuse.
Point taken and yes, in an ideal world. You have a very good understanding of all the processes and are able to cut through many of the confusions and misunderstandings.
I attempt to understand it all but often get things wrong or misunderstand and seek clarification.
The guy concerned knew he needed the bank letter, I'd told him he may not be able to get that letter the same day he asked for it but went ahead anyway. Stupid on his part I know and he knows it too.
Equally though, if a person (any person) chooses not to do their own research they should be able to present at a government office and expect to be provided with honest and transparent information. It's not unreasonable for any person who doesn't know the requirements to go to immigration in advance and ask what they need to do to stay in Thailand. I've often read that advice on this forum :- ' Best to pop in and ask them' .
It is simply wrong that if a person doesn't know something because they haven't found it out, they then become a target.
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Back to my original post. Were immigration speaking to him or his wife?
A few times I have been at immigration and overheard conversations between expat/wife/immigration officer.
I know that what they do is wrong but some guys really are there for the taking.
As Urleft posted, if your documents are in order then there should be no problem
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I'm with Starman on this.
I imagine all these stories, if true, are misunderstandings due to poor preparation, communications failure and or wife panic.
However it is very interesting that all the stories are apochraphol.
Not one is from the actual victim of the 'corrupt, thieving b4stards'.
We have an "84 year old", a "someone who", a "someone did", a "not me", and a "friend of mine".
Are these people not capable of posting themselves? Or is it that this is just the usual nonsense passed around by drunks in bars.
While KCI tried to rip me off years ago (and I posted about it on here) since BI has been open, I have had nothing but quick courteous service, with a smile and a very happy wai, if I decide to offer 100 Baht for coffee.
Never been called a liar before Frank and I resent that.
I have no reason to invent these stories, which are only a sample of feedback I receive.
I always give more than 100 Baht for coffee and that is just part of the game. Here, I am talking about opportunistic corruption and in the case of the 84 year old I find his treatment obscene.
Don't get me wrong, if they had told him that he currently did meet the income requirements I would have had no beef because that is within the 'rules'. Far cheaper for him to go to Savannaket for a non-imm O visa.
The point of my post is corruption - and an increasing propensity for blatant corruption at BI - if others are unaffected by it, or prefer to turn a blind eye to it, that is up to them.
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Ray, it was never my intention to call you a liar, if that is the way my post came across, please accept my sincere apologies.
Your honesty was never in question, if it were, my wife's financial security on my death would not have been placed in your hands.
My doubts stem from the second hand nature of all the stories quoted, but as Freddy has pointed out not everyone is a member here, so perhaps that's the reason they get into these situations.
Again, I apologise if I offended you.
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Ray, it was never my intention to call you a liar, if that is the way my post came across, please accept my sincere apologies.
Your honesty was never in question, if it were, my wife's financial security on my death would not have been placed in your hands.
My doubts stem from the second hand nature of all the stories quoted, but as Freddy has pointed out not everyone is a member here, so perhaps that's the reason they get into these situations.
Again, I apologise if I offended you.
😃😃😃
Thanks DJ, I hope your wife has to wait a very long time to reap the benefits of your demise🙂
You understand that I come into contact with many expats through the nature of visa, passport, estate planning work. As a consequence of this I hear things and people tell me things. I certainly would not post my comments on a thread of this nature without being as certain as I can that the experiences were genuine.
I am fully aware that BI, and others, have to deal with some real idiots - we have all seen these in action. The 3 examples I quoted (and there are more) were from genuine people who play by the rules and prepare for their immigration visits; none are unreasonable people who expect too much.
I particularly felt for the 84 year old and thought BI took advantage of the situation. I actually helped him with his paperwork and, whilst recognizing the 3,000 p.m. shortfall, I thought BI would take a benevolent view - especially as he had 120,000+ in the bank. I was so disappointed with their actions - next year I will ensure that his income meets the requirements.
Frankly, if I get to 84 I won't bugger about with immigration; I will consider overstaying on grounds of diminished responsibility and let the sods hunt me down if they wish.