Buriram Expats

Buriram Province - General Category => Farming in Isaan => Topic started by: nanglong218 on September 26, 2017, 09:29:05 PM

Title: Vegetable growing
Post by: nanglong218 on September 26, 2017, 09:29:05 PM
Other than an introduction this is my first post.   I retired last year and we came here to run the wife's farm. 24 rai (how many football pitches is that?).  Most is rice but the plan is to try self sustainability.  We plan a small/medium sized garden for personal production.  I've been reading a three year old post here about soil improvement,  an uphill task with the swamp we live in at the moment after nightly deluges.  Three kms south of me, off the 218 towards Chamni, is a place  calling itself Clean Farm.  It uses raised beds filled with rice husk and coconut fibre, maybe manure and soil.  On this is sat black plastic bags with more of this medium.  A pump powered irrigation system, probably with fertiliser added, takes care of nutrition and hopefully worms and bugs will take residence as the system becomes mature.
I'm going to give it a try with a shade house around it.  Has anyone else with more experience than me have views on the idea?
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Tassie on September 26, 2017, 10:54:06 PM
What is the name of the village you live in?  Do you live far from the Cham ni amphere?
Regards
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: nanglong218 on September 26, 2017, 11:06:35 PM
I live one village before Koksanuan, 36kms from Buriram. After the 218 dual section turn right before the fuel station.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: nanglong218 on December 04, 2018, 02:54:51 PM
Time to resurrect this thread this time with the emphasis on water.  I'm in Australia now for medical reasons, my wife, and stepson's wife from Surin, tell me the drought has caused a failure of the rice harvest.  Can anyone confirm this, give their views and give me a headsup on the repercussions.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Starman on December 04, 2018, 03:42:51 PM
Time to resurrect this thread this time with the emphasis on water.  I'm in Australia now for medical reasons, my wife, and stepson's wife from Surin, tell me the drought has caused a failure of the rice harvest.  Can anyone confirm this, give their views and give me a headsup on the repercussions.

There have been reports of harvest failure around Buriram province. The Government are issuing compensation to the tune of 1000 baht per rai.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Tassie on December 04, 2018, 03:45:23 PM
Yes, the drought has been severe with much of the current rice crop in Isan a disastrous failure.  Like in all broad acre farming, one has no control over the climate or rainfall.  If one can pump water to irrigate a crop then you have taken some step towards a favourable outcome.  Have a look at the stark poverty that most Isan Thai rice farmers live in, then you begin to realise that unless you can regulate the water flow, your potential crop outcome is quiet uncertain.
My wife told me that some years ago they had a 7 year rice crop failure (floods and or drought). 
Rice farming is traditional for Thai's but don't be swayed to grow rice as your wallet will soon be emptied.
Regards


Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: iammike on December 04, 2018, 03:53:23 PM
I can also confirm this.

BIL 6 rai of Rice fields usually yields 10+ BIG Bags of rice, this year it was just over 1 Bag and many others in the village are the same.

Some even didn't have the rice harvester cut down the rice because that would mean another 600 THB per RAI wasted and they are cutting it down manually to salvage what can be salvaged.

Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: mahdam on December 04, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Time to resurrect this thread this time with the emphasis on water.  I'm in Australia now for medical reasons, my wife, and stepson's wife from Surin, tell me the drought has caused a failure of the rice harvest.  Can anyone confirm this, give their views and give me a headsup on the repercussions.

There have been reports of harvest failure around Buriram province. The Government are issuing compensation to the tune of 1000 baht per rai.
The Sister in law has been to register for the Government compensation scheme today, and reports that the payment will be 1,500 baht per rai, limited to 12 rai per address regardless, of how much land owned.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Prakhonchai Nick on December 04, 2018, 04:37:32 PM
Time to resurrect this thread this time with the emphasis on water.  I'm in Australia now for medical reasons, my wife, and stepson's wife from Surin, tell me the drought has caused a failure of the rice harvest.  Can anyone confirm this, give their views and give me a headsup on the repercussions.

There have been reports of harvest failure around Buriram province. The Government are issuing compensation to the tune of 1000 baht per rai.
The Sister in law has been to register for the Government compensation scheme today, and reports that the payment will be 1,500 baht per rai, limited to 12 rai per address regardless, of how much land owned.

Same here in Prakhonchai. My wife has 7 rai. Payment was due to be made this week but for unlnown reasons has been delayed until later this month
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: nanglong218 on December 05, 2018, 05:40:57 AM
So that's it, is it?  Top compensation 18k baht,  $800aud, 16 bucks a week to last a year. There will be some very worried people in my village. Two doors down from us the man's harvester will be sitting idle. His was the first and in that year he made good money. Then others joined in, diluting the income while the bank loans needed paying.   So many are in debt to the  farmer's bank for seed and fertiliser.
I guess more of the youth will need to seek employment in BKK (or Pattaya) soon.
But let's not make a drama out of a crisis, with an election pending there may be interesting times ahead.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: DeputyDavid on December 05, 2018, 01:44:28 PM
Can confirm same as I am mike in Lamplaimat area. The river we use for irrigation didn?t flow at all this year. Big losses.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: iammike on December 05, 2018, 03:40:31 PM
<snip>   
I guess more of the youth will need to seek employment in BKK (or Pattaya) soon.
<snip>

Not only the youths. In our village there are at least 15+ (30+ year old) Guys who are considering going to Bangkok after New Years to find Jobs in Construction. Even the BIL is considering it, but we (my wife and myself) are against that as his health isn't that great.

Ps: Others are even thinking in going to Korea (but I think we all know how that will turn out :( )
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Freddy on December 05, 2018, 08:31:22 PM
I'm in Non Tacrong, Hincon. The guy across the street fixes tractors and combines. It was noticeably quiet this year. Normally during rice season he's working on equipment all night but not this year. Can't say I was sorry about the lack of noise but I sympathize for the locals dependent upon a good rice crop.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Starman on December 06, 2018, 09:05:47 AM
Quite a few years back there was a project initiated by late King Rama 9. His proposal was that farmers should turn a quarter of their land over to water management.With the constant need for topsoil the digging is free as is the removal of the soil.

My father in law embraced this idea, after some persuasion. Since that time he has never had a failed crop. The water in the pond (small lake really) can easily be pumped out into the rice fields in case of drought and, in the case of flooding, excess water can be pumped into the pond from the rice fields.

Some farmers decided against this idea as they were not prepared to lose rice paddy field as this would impact on their harvest. This decision now seems extremely short sited. Surely it's better to have 3/4 of your usually crop rather than none at all.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: iammike on December 06, 2018, 11:46:26 AM
Good one Starman, but one thing/comment.

But what do they do when the "Pond" runs out of water ?

This year the Water Level in the River here in the Area is extremely low and also the "Ponds" (which some farmers have) are completely empty, even some wells that people have (Pig farmers), have run dry and that was during the rainy season :(

Fortunate our well (which was dug during the top of the "Hot" season) hasn't run dry but here it's a hit and miss what kind of water (Salty (strange enough, which is AFAIK no good for RICE) or Not) you get when drilling a well.

Tip: When you drill a well, please get them to agree to a "Good Water" guarantee. And when they hit water at lets say 30 meters deep, let them drill another 5-10 meters deeper. And last one, dig a well at end of the "Hot/Dry" Season (but I think that's obvious ;))
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Starman on December 06, 2018, 11:58:28 AM
Good one Starman, but one thing/comment.

But what do they do when the "Pond" runs out of water ?

This year the Water Level in the River here in the Area is extremely low and also the "Ponds" (which some farmers have) are completely empty, even some wells that people have (Pig farmers), have run dry and that was during the rainy season :(

Fortunate our well (which was dug during the top of the "Hot" season) hasn't run dry but here it's a hit and miss what kind of water (Salty (strange enough, which is AFAIK no good for RICE) or Not) you get when drilling a well.

Tip: When you drill a well, please get them to agree to a "Good Water" guarantee. And when they hit water at lets say 30 meters deep, let them drill another 5-10 meters deeper. And last one, dig a well at end of the "Hot/Dry" Season (but I think that's obvious ;))

7 years in and the pond has never been empty. This year, as you have reported has been a particularly bad year, and the pond is not empty.

Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: iammike on December 06, 2018, 12:17:14 PM
So it totally depends on the area, unfortunately there is no One size fits all solution.

BIL is thinking of diversifying (which IMHO he needs to (but I don?t take part in the discussion;)) but it?s very hard for them to abondon Rice (my FIL (80+ year old) is absolutely against it :(
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: iammike on December 06, 2018, 12:52:41 PM
<snip>
This year, as you have reported has been a particularly bad year, and the pond is not empty.

Could it be that his pond automatically is replenished (via ground water) ?? (I believe in Thai it's Called Naam Boh)

If so, then he is very lucky, there are some of these in our Amphur and the people that have those sell the water as "drinking" water (1300 liters for 160-200 THB).
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Starman on December 06, 2018, 03:02:48 PM
<snip>
This year, as you have reported has been a particularly bad year, and the pond is not empty.

Could it be that his pond automatically is replenished (via ground water) ?? (I believe in Thai it's Called Naam Boh)



I don't recall seeing water in the newly dug pond prior to the monsoons so I don't think it has hit the water table. The pond is in the region of 15 to 20 metres deep. That is more likely the reason it is never empty. I would imagine that depth would work any where.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: nanglong218 on December 06, 2018, 04:57:59 PM
Water storage on a scale to irrigate several rai will take a lot of big dams/ponds. Strange, I left Sept 24 and it had been a wet summer.  Our 5 to 6000 litres of tanks were full.  Everything looked good.  That water can't help the rice so it will keep our Tilapia tanks alive plus the market garden.
After 13 years in Australia I'm obsessive about water, its shortage causes poverty and despair.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Starman on December 06, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
Water storage on a scale to irrigate several rai will take a lot of big dams/ponds. Strange, I left Sept 24 and it had been a wet summer.  Our 5 to 6000 litres of tanks were full.  Everything looked good.  That water can't help the rice so it will keep our Tilapia tanks alive plus the market garden.
After 13 years in Australia I'm obsessive about water, its shortage causes poverty and despair.

Like I said before, the project initiated by the King suggested 1/4 of rice land should be turned over to water storage. Those that have done that in our area have not lost a crop for many years now.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: iammike on December 06, 2018, 06:29:54 PM
<snip>

Like I said before, the project initiated by the King suggested 1/4 of rice land should be turned over to water storage. Those that have done that in our area have not lost a crop for many years now.

I suspect it will work what you say, but in so many places its that they first have to see that it works (read make a profit) before they will commit to sacrificing 1/4 of their land.

TiT ;)
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Starman on December 06, 2018, 06:40:11 PM
<snip>

Like I said before, the project initiated by the King suggested 1/4 of rice land should be turned over to water storage. Those that have done that in our area have not lost a crop for many years now.

I suspect it will work what you say, but in so many places its that they first have to see that it works (read make a profit) before they will commit to sacrificing 1/4 of their land.

TiT ;)

I am surprised that people would not believe. It was a very well publisised project initiated by the most revered king in the history of Thailand. It's a shame that some folks can't see the need to change their ways for the better, and I don't mean that in a condescending way.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: nanglong218 on December 06, 2018, 07:04:11 PM
Sacrificing growing land for water is obviously a trade off.  Will it work long term asks the farmer?  A friend of mine in upcountry Victoria says evaporation is his biggest problem when the sun is high and the air is dry.  Everyday his water level has fallen.  If water can be conserved during Oct/Nov then there may be a chance of saving the harvest.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: iammike on December 06, 2018, 07:06:55 PM
<snip>

Like I said before, the project initiated by the King suggested 1/4 of rice land should be turned over to water storage. Those that have done that in our area have not lost a crop for many years now.

I suspect it will work what you say, but in so many places its that they first have to see that it works (read make a profit) before they will commit to sacrificing 1/4 of their land.

TiT ;)

I am surprised that people would not believe. It was a very well publisised project initiated by the most revered king in the history of Thailand. It's a shame that some folks can't see the need to change their ways for the better, and I don't mean that in a condescending way.

I agree with you, but that?s just the way it is here unfortunately.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Starman on December 06, 2018, 07:13:16 PM
Sacrificing growing land for water is obviously a trade off.  Will it work long term asks the farmer?  A friend of mine in upcountry Victoria says evaporation is his biggest problem when the sun is high and the air is dry.  Everyday his water level has fallen.  If water can be conserved during Oct/Nov then there may be a chance of saving the harvest.

A farmer cannot grow rice without water or with too much water. So.....sacrifice 1/4 of growing land to save a crop or just keep planting year after year with the possibility of losing 100%??????? The point is that my father in law and some other farmers in our area took the decision to dig a pond for water management. Their crops have been good for the drought and the flood years. They listened to reasoning. What happened to those that didn't??
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: nanglong218 on December 06, 2018, 07:32:23 PM
I agree Starman.     But the bank comes before the King's advice.
I spent far too many hours at the land office in Lamplaimat where mama was subdividing the family land into small uneconomic plots shared among her children.  A recipe for continual poverty, lack of investment and imagination resulting in subsistence farming. 
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Starman on December 06, 2018, 07:49:58 PM
I agree Starman.     But the bank comes before the King's advice.
I spent far too many hours at the land office in Lamplaimat where mama was subdividing the family land into small uneconomic plots shared among her children.  A recipe for continual poverty, lack of investment and imagination resulting in subsistence farming. 

I think you are missing the point. The whole idea of the King's project was to get the farmers out of debt. To ensure that banks were not a factor. Other parts of the scheme were to use fish and buffalo dung in the paddies instead of chemicals. To save seed from one crop to plant the next year. Some listened and some didn't.

Your example is classic. Siblings fighting over what they perceive to be theirs instead of working together. I'm not sure that rice farming alone send folks here into poverty, but rather the denial of the need to think ahead.

Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Tassie on December 06, 2018, 08:35:17 PM
Show me a successful small (under 20 Rai) rice farmer and I will show you 100 that are continual failures.  Rice farming on small acreage for commercial gain is a slippery slope to continuous poverty. Even if one has  a bumper crop, there is not enough profit to be made to keep one out of poverty unless they have another income source.
Regards
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Freddy on December 06, 2018, 08:37:46 PM
Crazy how land is divided up here. What happens with the next generation?? Divide what's already been divided again??

Bad rice seasons aside, the approach that many families have won't sustain much longer anyway. Lifestyle expectations and general cost of living is gaining pace  here and a small rice crop is no longer able to support a family even if it is a good year. Same as has happened in the UK and all over the world. The big boys will survive and slowly take over.

Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Tassie on December 06, 2018, 08:39:25 PM
Spot on Freddy.
Regards
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: nanglong218 on December 06, 2018, 08:44:26 PM
Tassie, what will they do with all the displaced workers when they build the farms into an economic size.  I keep tripping over sleeping Watsadu sales staff as it is.
Title: Re: Vegetable growing
Post by: Freddy on December 06, 2018, 08:58:11 PM
Off topic from vegetable and rice growing but a very clear indication of the way things are going.
I moved here to Lam Plaimat a little over 4 years ago. I live in a small satellite village ( Non Tacrong, Hinclon). When I moved here there was a small Tesco Lotus in Lam Plaimat and one 7/11. There is now the original Tesco Lotus, the new big one and six 7/11.

One village shop existed when I moved over and was doing pretty well. There are now 3, all struggling.

That is in a 4 year period.

I don't think all six 7/11s are making a fortune but they all have customers and all seem to be relatively busy. I suspect within the next 4 years we will be back down to one village shop or maybe none.