Buriram Expats
Buriram Province - General Category => Dating / Personals & Everything between them. => Topic started by: rufusredtail on May 01, 2011, 05:01:55 PM
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Hi all, my question is to all out there, what did you have to pay when getting married to a Thai lady, i know its a sore point with westerners, and may be none of my business, but i am curious about money up front, as in a sort of guarantee,it just goes against the grain, is it the less you own , the less you pay , lets says for instance that 1 owns 3 houses, near retiring age , money in the bank , super and all the rest , is one accessed at what one has , then a figure arrived at , lets say for instance , i was ask for 2 million thb , is this excessive, i know in some Case the mother gives all back , butttttttttttttttttttt what happens if it is kept , my grip is that it is like paying to get married , i would like figures of what you paid , if thats ok with you moneysmile
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You are talking about 'Sin Sod', the subject has been discussed so many times in the past.....
To make it short. love2
Its a dowry.
Usually not returned to the groom as it is gift money for the bride's parents.It's a Thai tradition.
Farang/Thai weddings 'Sin Sod' can be anything between 30,000-1,000,000 Baht.
*Talking about 'Sin Sod' amount only, not other things the wife/family are asking like a new house/car,etc because its very personal and depend on the person willing to pay or from the other side, how poor the family is and how much there are in need for financially support.
Instead of asking 'IF' tell us how much were you asked to pay and we can advice (from our point of view and personal experience of course) if its fair or not?
Almost always the answer will be: It's worth it if you are willing to pay for it.
sawadi
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You are offering a Thai girl the chance of a lifetime. If it's not you or some other foreigner, then most likely it will be a local village lad with little or no work, an alcoholic, possibly a wife beater, who more than likely will desert her after a year or so. You can most likely provide financial security for her both during your lifetime and after you have gone. That in itself is worth more than any dowry, and the parents should be made to see the benefits to their daughter.
Dowries are paid by fools in my book!
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The price is 2 million thb
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The price is 2 million thb
Is she a movie star love6
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I didn't plan to get married on my extended stay in buriram over 10 years ago, but I did and I paid 100,000 baht of which half was given back and the other half was used by her sister to assist with her business. I also bought some gold for the wife to wear at the wedding as well. As it turns out today, her sister is doing very well, she has a very large wholesale / retail operation in the markets.
At the time when I paid the money it was a lot to me because it was part of my holiday money to stay in Thailand for 3 months, but I got by. 2 million sounds a lot, but it really does depend on what you have, If you have 3 houses and super etc, then 2 million is not a lot. If you have no house, a small amount of super then I would be looking at reducing the amount!! It does really depend on your situation.
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By the way not everyone is out for money, one of the nieces was being courted by a young Perth bloke, he offered her everything and said he would give her anything, she asked if he could give her the moon. Needless to say it did not go anywhere. She finished her Uni degree and now works at the Thepnakorn hotel.
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If they want to stick to that amount : my advice ... RUN AND NEVER LOOK BACK !!!!!!!
The best advice I can give to "new kids in town" is "x and forget" but most of the time the brain stays at the level of the dick ...
please do yourself a favor ... keep it "low profile" on what you have .. otherwhise you are going to be a hell of a cashcow for her and her family and I have an inckling of a feeling that this already happened ...
If you really want to "try" it out just live with them for a while ( one year at least ) and pay on a daily basis ... you still can be generous on a daillt basis but donnot fork out 2.000.000 like that ... you WILL loose face = it will come over that you are an easy picking !!!
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In other words. Paying more money is not always mean earn face.
Read all comments because the dowry amount is just not sound correct.
It's your call now. TAKE YOUR TIME TO MAKE A DECISION.
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2 million baht? They're taking the PISS!
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troll
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troll
Sin Sod has been done to death over the years,anybody who asks about it only has to google and read to see what westerners think.You could be right Ray :biggrin:
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troll
Sin Sod has been done to death over the years,anybody who asks about it only has to google and read to see what westerners think.You could be right Ray :biggrin:
See his posts: I really don't think he is troll just because he is newbie! sawadi
http://www.buriramexpats.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=4786 (http://www.buriramexpats.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=4786)
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Anyone considering paying 2m sin sot is either a troll or a half-wit.
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Anyone considering paying 2m sin sot is either a troll or a half-wit.
Plenty of both around too!!
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Anyone considering paying 2m sin sot is either a troll or a half-wit.
Well CC what would you consider a fair sin sod then.....
I have always wondered the same.....
Village girl, worked bar when she was young and wants mom to be happy?
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Pending CC's response, I will say that I do not consider any sin sod to be fair.
Mum ought to be deliriously happy that her daughter has found a decent man to take care of her. Money should not be a consideration! But perhaps more importantly, the girl herself should be happy to marry, and not just doing it for Mum's benefit.
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I have said that I will not pay sin sod.
The whole ethos of sin sod is fundamentally wrong (in my opinion).
It is my responsibility to look after my Thai partner (as it was with 2 English wives). This I will do to the best of my ability, which will be somewhat better than a Thai husband (at this level) could do.
My partner will finish up with assets beyond anything she could have expected from a Thai marriage. If she wants me to marry her, it will be without sin sod. I will not be party to that circus of giving gold and cash as a dowry. This is a Thai tradition with wholly different circumstances.
Next thing, you will be dressing up in Thai costume and spending the first night of married life in the familyhome. What a load of tosh !
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Will you be hanging out the sheets CoCo???
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troll
Sin Sod has been done to death over the years,anybody who asks about it only has to google and read to see what westerners think.You could be right Ray :biggrin:
nowinkbar
Well have YOU google'd this subject! :-\
I did back along, maybe 6 monhs ago, and its is surprising what little information comes up, and there seems to be an evenlly balance arguement for both sides (on paying and NOT paying) stop1
So yes, When a someone asks this question it only shows they are trying to find out as much info as possible!
party3 A lot of you peps on here are fortunate to live in Thailand and no doubt go through the various stages that you may now see from us "newer" bods that are finding Thailand.
And YES all Thai ladies like moneysmile, but its maybe just finding the right balance in your own individual relationship with your prospective Thai lady.
oldmanwithstick I can only speak for mine at the moment, and we seem to be at a fluid stage, where there was the talk of 300,000 Baht for marraige or even no "sinsod" but could build house to even, no want anything just happy to have a Farang!
I think it all boils down to who they have been speaking to and what that other person says they should be looking for! oldmanwithstick
Classic example thought not connected with sinsod., There I was sitting on mama/papa's poarch watching the world go by and lady down road comes on in and sits down, smiles at me and holds out her hand! whistle I ignore and eventually she wanders away muttering! On getting translation I discover she was calling me stingy and cheap charlie! lol she had nothing to do with family (not that would make a difference) and just expected the farang to dish out the readies! lol
Even g/f's family know better than just expect me to pay all the time. Hey do not mind now and then and if I agree to whats happening, but not a walking ATM. wildman
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Thanks for the advice all, maraudingscot sums it up well, been a newbie i can only ask the question , i think we could do without the SARCASM, in some cases,any way , thank you great help knuppel2
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Thanks for the advice all, maraudingscot sums it up well, been a newbie i can only ask the question , i think we could do without the SARCASM, in some cases,any way , thank you great help knuppel2
Being Sarcastic is the only way to get through to some of you........
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Not so much Sarcasm Rufus, just gentle fun.
Hopefully now you have come to realise the benefits of forums, when members collectively offer advice for the benefit of others.
You were not to know as a Newbie that 2 million baht was way over the to. Now that you do, I trust you will make the right decision, and if there is a next time, indicate at the outset that you are anti sin sod!
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Mate,
I was asked 100,000 baht and 1 baht gold, but I explained my position with the stuff that I would do for the girl for rest of life. I do not pay my wife any money on regular basis as she has her own job and house, but I have paid for all holidays, her medical checkups, her trip to Australia and other countires. She also knew that in future she will have to come to Australia to settle down. So, they took the option to waive sin sod. I still brought cash to show off and it was all returned back to me. I bought her .75 carat excellent quality diamond platinum ring and my family fave her half baht of gold. Everyone was very happy with that and have not asked me for anything. So far I only put a pargola in the house and nothing else.
What I am trying to say is that in any case you have the power to negotiate and never be afraid to walk away. You need to present your options to the girl and if it's the money that she is interested in, then, you shoudl reconsider your options.
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Wise word!
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It's more often the Mother than the girl that wants the money
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It's more often the Mother than the girl that wants the money
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree though.
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Personally I met my present wife 3 years ago. Married 1.5 years ago. Sinsod new to me and in beginning didnt like it at all. My GF told a different rumors of amounts, but had heard about thai "rumor making" so didnt care to much.
Preferred also look into internet sites like this to get a second opinion.
Her father had passed away 5 years ago and they didnt have money to arrange party for hin. So I agreed that if i give thb 300.000 that also include for the party (which was held 3 months ago). In the period after i met my wife, before she came to Norway to stay with me, i transferred thb 20.000 monthly. I have continued doing so after she came to Norway, and of course now go to MIL ( but also for paying four 08 Toyota Hilux whick of course they use when we not in LOS).
We(I) have also bought some new land where we plan to build when I retire in 4 Years. Have filled up land and made perimeter wall. MIL and wifes daughter 17 years will make house/shop on outside perimeter wall. Think it is ok, they an take take care of our house when we in Norway during summer. My wife work in Norway and ALL :-) her salary go for saving for MIL/daughters new house to be buildt next year.
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I would refer the gentleman to the answer I gave earlier and before that and before that and before that...
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300,000 sinsot, to a girl with 16/17 year old daughter, and 20,000bt a month!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
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And that is only one poor sucker Nick ... many "farang" don't even dare to tell what they forked out ... on the outside like the thai : big face ... I am the BOSS ... but meek bleeding sheep inside the house ...
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And that is only one poor sucker Nick ... many "farang" don't even dare to tell what they forked out ... on the outside like the thai : big face ... I am the BOSS ... but meek bleeding sheep inside the house ...
Yes they all say it was handed back after the wedding ::) ::) ::) ::) :laugh:
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My wife didn't tell me about this and in the middle of the ceremony she told me I had to give some money to her mother (this was 11 years ago). So I say how much and she says up to you!!
So I give the MIL 2000 baht!!
11 years on and we have land and a big house a pick up paid in full, chickens, buffalo et al..they had nothing when we met.
I have a name plate outside of our house in thai that says "farang kee nok". Cos thats what the villagers called me after the wedding hahahaha!!
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I know it is a good "monthly salary" for thai-standard. About the sinsod it is much the same, but then again thinking we do the "party for papa" once and for all time, I was thinking about it as ok.
50% goes for paying off the Toyota, but then we (and them as well) has a reasonable safe car to drive.
What realy "worry" me the most is the lack of possibility to have land in your own name here in LOS spot1
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Ok I have read all the posts on this topic. It is a little obstacle that is worrying me a little to! I am still in Uk at the moment but I intend to move out to LOS in October. I have studied for a TEFL certificate and want to set up a buisiness teaching English privately to small groups. I don't have a degree so can't get work in a school. My girlfriend is from Buriram provence and she has small business in Lam Plai Mat. She also has degree in business management, teaching qualifications and good job doing accounts for her aunt in Bkk two days a month which keeps her in money! My dilema is, her mum wants 10baht in gold and 200,000 in cash for us to marry. I think this is quite reasonable because the family have lots of land around Lam Plai Mat so I can build a house for us to live pretty much where I like. A loan will be paid off that my girlfriend started a business with. The wedding party will come out of the 200,000 to. What do you think, am I getting a good deal?
Oh, I forgot to mention she is damn sexy too! :)
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That's 200K cash and around 220K for the gold.
An educated girl, But WHY should you have to buy her?
Are you getting a good deal? on the face of it....NO.
How old is she? married before? kids?
YOU need the money to set up home for you and your new wife. Make the MIL understand that!
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That is exactly what I am thinking to! She is 33 never been married, no kids, hard working. Maybe I have to grab the bull by the horns and tell them how it is! Or walk away, there is still plenty more fish in the sea!
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Ok I have read all the posts on this topic. It is a little obstacle that is worrying me a little to! I am still in Uk at the moment but I intend to move out to LOS in October. I have studied for a TEFL certificate and want to set up a buisiness teaching English privately to small groups. I don't have a degree so can't get work in a school. My girlfriend is from Buriram provence and she has small business in Lam Plai Mat. She also has degree in business management, teaching qualifications and good job doing accounts for her aunt in Bkk two days a month which keeps her in money! My dilema is, her mum wants 10baht in gold and 200,000 in cash for us to marry. I think this is quite reasonable because the family have lots of land around Lam Plai Mat so I can build a house for us to live pretty much where I like. A loan will be paid off that my girlfriend started a business with. The wedding party will come out of the 200,000 to. What do you think, am I getting a good deal?
Oh, I forgot to mention she is damn sexy too! :)
She works 2 days a month and that keeps her in money? :blink:
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I don't understand this! I met my Thai wife in Oman where she worked in the Gym at a posh hotel. After two years we got married there and built a house back in Nangrong where she's from. No money exchanged hands and none was asked for.
Sounds like some can see you coming and take the piss! If they have been married before and usually to a relatively poor Thai man then they should weigh up what life was like before and what it could be like in the future and if the relative get involved then just call it off as a few mates here have done!
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The subject is called "the moneyone HAS to pay", the answer is simple, nothing, and anybody who thinks this answer is wrong should seriously doubt himself.
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She works 2 days a month and that keeps her in money?
Yes true! Good job! Pays very well! She wouldn't want to get caught doing a crime on the day she works though!
I have a feeling a few people are a bit bored with this topic!
I think we each have to make up our own minds about this, what is right or wrong is not really the question we should ask ourselves.
It helps to hear the views of others who have faced the same experiences. I will go off and make an informed decision on the knowledge I have benefited from today! I am sure I'll still be coming to LOS in October though I might have to negotiate a bit on the gold part of the sin sod it!
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Not aimed at anyone is particular but after reading the posts something struck me:
Why is everyone thinking of this as a deal ? as if they are wondering is it good value for money. If you are still wondering that, or even thinking along those lines, why get married at all ? If you can't sit down and (with many hand jesters and waving) make your new wife understand your concerns and If she doesnt at least try to make her family understand or try to mediate a better compromise with her parents, then what kind of a wife will she make for you down the road.
Also, remember that there are beautiful young women in Buriram that marry foreigners for a living and they don't necessarily wait for the first marriage to be over before the go looking for the next.
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Your Feelings on Sin Sod aside, If a farang was marrying a farang and he couldn't discuss an important issue like this with his partner, you might say to that he is are clearly not ready to get married yet.
For the guys here considering paying Sin Sod soon and have not been living in Thailand 'full-time' long then why not just live with her for a while longer, Why the rush to get married ? Sin sod for the Thai family is supposed to be about showing off the new family member's wealth (yours) and proving to all onlookers (aka the whole village) that you can support this lady (and her family). Why not live there for a while first and show by your actions rather than your words how you intend on treating her and her family. You could also say that you do want to get married in the near future but in your culture people stay engaged for a longer time before marrying. Explain all of this to her family and that you intend to marry for the long-haul and want to do it properly, not in a rush. Their reaction should tell you a lot.
I married my wife only five days before we were moving back to my home country for good. I would never have married her if we still lived on different continents, I only ever intended on marrying the one time .... but you know what they say about good intentions. mhihi
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We live in real times with reality I guess. When I see a young, petite Thai woman with an ugly obese farang then I know love it aint! So, if he has had to pay for it then it's on a long lease!
Marriage is marriage which means a 'mutual' arrangement and mutual respect and understanding. If money is mentioned then I'd get rid because marriage it aint!
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Paddyram, we agree on most subjects lately, I totally agree to you. It's beceause most of the men here are desperate and think they don't have time, and the woman aren't giving any, just beceause of the money.
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We live in real times with reality I guess. When I see a young, petite Thai woman with an ugly obese farang then I know love it aint! So, if he has had to pay for it then it's on a long lease!
Marriage is marriage which means a 'mutual' arrangement and mutual respect and understanding. If money is mentioned then I'd get rid because marriage it aint!
I seemed to have two 'break clauses' in my UK marriages !
I even changed my car every 3 years.
Reality is what you want it to be - especially in Thailand.
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Your Feelings on Sin Sod aside, If a farang was marrying a farang and he couldn't discuss an important issue like this with his partner, you might say to that he is are clearly not ready to get married yet.
For the guys here considering paying Sin Sod soon and have not been living in Thailand 'full-time' long then why not just live with her for a while longer, Why the rush to get married ? Sin sod for the Thai family is supposed to be about showing off the new family member's wealth (yours) and proving to all onlookers (aka the whole village) that you can support this lady (and her family). Why not live there for a while first and show by your actions rather than your words how you intend on treating her and her family. You could also say that you do want to get married in the near future but in your culture people stay engaged for a longer time before marrying. Explain all of this to her family and that you intend to marry for the long-haul and want to do it properly, not in a rush. Their reaction should tell you a lot.
I married my wife only five days before we were moving back to my home country for good. I would never have married her if we still lived on different continents, I only ever intended on marrying the one time .... but you know what they say about good intentions. mhihi
Thank you for those wise words. I will try that. All I need to do now is sort out my visa, but that is another topic!
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Also, remember that there are beautiful young women in Buriram that marry foreigners for a living and they don't necessarily wait for the first marriage to be over before the go looking for the next.
Very well said Paddy. I know of 2 in my village. One married a Northern European, he returned home after 2 days , and just over 9 months later she gave birth - err - to a Non European child. The North European is none the wiser, and still pays her a fortune every month!
On the specific topic of sinsod, I have seen Thai men borrow the money required to keep MIL happy, only for the newly weds to have to work overtime for the next couple of years or more to pay back the loan and horrendous interest charged, never having time to socialise, nor money to find a decent home for themselves. And the MIL is off playing cards and making donations to the Wat with her new found wealth, caring fcuk-all for her daughhter and new husband!
DON'T DO IT!
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'Sinson' issue has been discussed in the past and it's simply a tradition, genuine Thai tradition, now of course some Thai ladies are taking advantage on this tradition but you can't generalize all of them for it, in the same way a western women can take advantage on the MARRIAGE LAW in the west, so in both cases you have to seek and look if the relationship is genuine or not.
Pay the 'sinsod' if it's reasonable amount (100K-200K Baht is a reasonable amount for me, 2-7 Baht Gold MAX), It's normal, you help the family, you keep your wife happy and she won't deny her family and tradition for such a thing.
BTW, in the past it was part of many cultures tradition but as people become more wealthy and independent the tradition in many cases left only on the paper.
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A wedding in Thailand will cost you around 300K-600K Baht all included while a wedding in the west will cost you anywhere between 50,000-100,000 USD.
moneysmile
A proud 'sinsod' payer! yeahme
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True Almog, but many 'traditions' are ope to abuse, India is a prime example of that!
If you have a good relationship and happy marriage then money shouldn't come into it.
My step-son was 9 when I first met him, a lost soul. He is now 12, top of his class in all subjects including English, computer literate, strong and fit and good at many sports. I took him to UK when he was 10, met my daughters and his new cousins and they looked after him taking him all round London. That is worth more than money! The family do ok as I make sure if they need anything I help, as all families do. I bought a motorcycle for my Thai brother-in-law as he lives quite far out and has helped us in our home.
Money on its own has doubtful motivation!
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A wedding in Thailand will cost you around 300K-600K Baht all included while a wedding in the west will cost you anywhere between 50,000-100,000 USD.
moneysmile
Who told you this? It's simply not true. If you pay so much you're beeing screwed over.
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Don't pay it on the grounds that you believe it proves to the family and community that you are able to take care financially of their daughter, that's codswallop.
You marry, buy/build a house, purchase a car, take care of the kids, send them to decent schools, be generous to the temple or whatever.
The family and community will take note, they don't miss a trick.
All for the sake of inflating the In-laws ego for one day? Don't bother. If they are genuine, decent people, they will get over it and compromise.
If they don't, then move elsewhere.
Like other posters have said, it's money YOU need to start up a new life with your wife, If you hand it over to the inlaws, chances are, it will be spunked up the wall.
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Lukey - agreed. Some ''uncles & cousins'' tried it on at first wanting to 'borrow' money. So I asked how can you pay it back when you don't have a job or regular source of income? My wife is good, a switched on clever Thai woman who explained to some family members that we are not a registered charity and don't compete with Oxfam! They need to learn that handouts are not on but there are some farangs that can only get a woman buy paying for it and they deserve to be shafted by devious women.
Generally, Thai women are fairly sharp and work hard. It's the men that are lazy! I've been to 38 countries and seen many Thai and Filipina women working long periods away from home, I rarely see Thai men do this!
''If a man is starving don't give him fish, give him a fishing rod!''
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When all is said and done Thai's don't have the same understanding of money as we do, a simplistic and naive approach to say the least!
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Like it ! thumbup
It's the hand to mouth existence that they live in these parts. Many don't see past today, and certainly don't have the funds to plan for the future. Offer them 10000 baht at the end of the week or 1000 bt today, and the majority will take the latter.
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Some extremely sensible comments on this thread (except for Admin! mhihi) - there is hope for us yet. redman
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There is a family of 5 that live in a nice house near me, 3 over 21. They got his house when one of them met an Aussie, she 26 he 66. He paid the deposit for the house about 50% and then pressure was put on him for more and he left (good on him). Then, the other two had an Aussie and Englishman. The Oz bloke put his foot down after a while as she wanted money for her 3 kids schooling, he refused, so they split, she has the house! The English bloke 43, was going out with the youngest, met in Pukhet. After about a year pressure was put on him to get married etc but he didn't tell her he was still married, waiting for a divorce. He mouthed off about how much money he has, cutting to the chase, she got deliberately pregnant (definately his). He lost his job and is broke in UK. She has gone back down south to look for an older, naive man leaving the kid with grannie, the other two are already there. Nice house, only half paid for but still paid for by idiots with cocks for brains!
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Sounds like the plot for a good soap mate.
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I have seen at least 8 grown men come and go (or cum and go) in that house in the past few years. Met them down south, all but one well over 60. A hungry dog wouldn't look at them in their own countries so do they actually believe that when landing in Thailand they suddenly become attractive?
One of the Aussie blokes lost a lot of money and went back home to Brisbane. I have no real opinion on this; they are whores, and the men, naive and ignorant have their brains in their pants so they get what they deserve!
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A fool and his money are soon parted.
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It's not the only thing that gets 'parted' when a farang shows him money !!!!
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There is a lesbian Thai girl living around the corner here in the village, has an old Aussie sending money to her, she drives a Fortuner, has a really nice house, and he cums to visit her once a year, smart lesbian, dumb Aussie.
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Like Mr T used to say: '' I pity the fool! ''
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There is a lesbian Thai girl living around the corner here in the village, has an old Aussie sending money to her, she drives a Fortuner, has a really nice house, and he cums to visit her once a year, smart lesbian, dumb Aussie.
Had a lovely lass (Stinker) In our village, her boyfriend would pick up the farang from the airport in his ''taxi''. The farang thought he was her brother... She would openly brag that she was feeding the poor bugger Dog as well (Unbeknown to him Im sure). hungry1
Karmas a bastward, she's back in Phuket now, minus the farang, too fugly to secure another sponsor im sure.
Wonderful people.
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Gues many of you people are lucky living permanenly in LOS redmanbut-not doing so yet brick1 feel not sure if last examples is the average thailady living with farang?
It was said that many ladies are hard working in ordinary jobs while a larger persentage of the thaimen prefer cha-cha and talk/whiskey (just like farangs? party4).
Personally I also dont like paying more than needed, but also think (sometimes) that we are more lucky than most ordinairy thais. Guess also the ladies know that their "good luck" suddently can change and maybe also farang ladies would done the same in similar situations.
Think in many situations the MIL is the powerful person, putting a lot of pressure on daughter. Then we also have the pressure of family loyalty and the absence of government social security inThailand.
So i feel it is ok with "a little help" if they also contribute by themselves.
And even if a dowry of Thb 2-300.000,- is a big amount to most Thais (and also us who have to work hard getting them), it is mostly affordable for us. Like to hope/think most falang also like/take interest in the family and their plans for the money and can have some influence on how it it spendt. (but maybe im wrong brick1)
If its spendt wisely and help providing them a better future, then feel a little "mai pen rai" about giving.
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A Thai with a good job makes 10000 to 15000 a month, so 200000 to 300000 is like 20 to 30 times a monthsalary. Say you make 2000 a month in Europe, this would mean if you merry a western woman you would have to pay her parents 40000 to 60000 Euro? BS, never paid and never will. I actually think no one pays it here, it's just the dumb farang. screwy
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Thais do pay as well.
My ex wifes brother has recently married in Sakon Nakhon the Sin Sod was 40,000 altogether with the wedding party it cost 70,000.
My ex-wife paid for it all that's how I know, so it's not just us that pay we are just expected to pay more.
When I married her about 12 years ago it was agreed that I would pay 100,000 and 5 baht gold but I would get 50,000 back after the wedding and seeing as she already had 3 baht gold I would only have to buy 2.
The gold is for the wife to keep the money goes to the parents who also paid for the wedding the party lasted 4 days.
a couple of day after her parents came to the hotel to see us carrying a big handbag. Her father looked embarrassed and was staring at the floor.
The bag was full of money mostly 100's and 20's I was told it came to about 44,000 they had spent too much on the wedding and that was all that was left which included as I later found out all they could scrape up.
I told them not to worry we are family now and I was very happy with the wedding in fact it was the best wedding I had ever been to and I wanted them to keep the money.
I always had a good relationship with them even to this day I do even though my ex-wife and I are no longer together we still remain friends and I am still welcome in their home my ex mother in law says she still regards me as her son.
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I didn't get married in Thailand though, had a party when we got back though!
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I told them not to worry we are family now and I was very happy with the wedding in fact it was the best wedding I had ever been to and I wanted them to keep the money.
Nice of you to do so, and lucky for the inlaws that you did. They will be expected to return that money to each and every guest eventually....
When I first went to the Thai parties (Weddings/funerals etc) I used to think It was a fantastic idea that the guests would slip the hosts an envelope of money to contribute back to the cost of the event. You soon realise though, that every party has a cashier who logs how much each guest donates. The Thais Keep these books and later, when they go to somebody elses party, they will give back exactly what they once recieved or maybe a little bit extra, gotta remember the old face issue!
Its obvious then, that the locals aren't really chipping in to ease the financial burden of the event, but are just loaning you the cash, with the expectation that you will give it back later, at a party of their own. (Still, Its not a bad idea, just not as saintly as it seems.)
We went to a wedding not long back, the MIL gave the family 200 bt. The family there threw a wobbly because she never gave them as much as they had given her before (Real classy stuff). The MIL went back home to check in her Log book, where it turns out the family wasn't recorded as giving a previous donation. Turns out the cashier from the MIL's party the week before had skimmed about 13000 baht. When he was approached, he could'nt give a monkies either.Lovely chap.
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When we are back in Buriram on holiday, I like to head for the farang bars like Paddy's and have a few pints and a laugh with the long-time expats, like members on the forum here who have businesses, kids, house, etc., and who have obviously settled down in Buriram long-term. The funny stories from days spent in sin city, new thaiglish phrases, discussions re: SinSod, gossip from the village, etc. All good fun with people who are obviously happy here and have worked through the sinsod/family/visa issues that come with life there. Their first-hand experiences, just like the discussions on the forum here are priceless for the 'new guys'. [Admin, let me just say a well-overdue thank you on that score. This forum has been very useful for me.]
BUT then I go shopping and my wife bumps into some of her old classmates or neighbours walking around with their new wallet, I mean farang. Then right in front of me (in Thai), the old school friend openly asks my wife if she can take a young farang like me (i'm 33) for her, because her guy is too old and stingey. All the while, I am standing there exchanging pleasantries with the love-sick farang, who is clueless about what is going on.
For that reason alone, I would urge any 'new guy' not to rush into marriage and to take his time. But you also need to be aware that resisting pressure from your GF’s family to get married (or spend loads of your money on them) will make them worried as to how helpful you will be to the family. at this point some of her relatives will start telling her to look for a better farang (or a second one).
If you can politely refuse to pay the Sinsod or manage to postpone the wedding, but at the same time show them that you are going to ‘help’ your lady’s family (as long as she is still your lady) and not be a ‘kee nok’ farang. Then if they still throw a wobbler and your lady insists that you pay the amount they are looking for, then you are being mugged. You now have a simple choice, is she worth the risk ? Only you can answer that, but just accept that either way you might make the wrong choice.
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Other ladies asking my wife to get them a new farang also pisses me off for another reason. My 7 year old daughter would sometimes be with us listening to all this going on and I get a million questions from her when we go home.
I'm always tempted to tell the farang whats going on, but then what: he goes home, we go home and the wife's family are left with the hassle from the other family. So i don't say anything.
By now I honestly think the sly Thai GF's are very easy to spot. I don't know why exactly but the sneaky ones always look sneaky to me. So is it just me or do any of you think that the 'professional mia farangs' are easy to spot from the good wife material ?
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I guess I just don’t see why everything has to be done in such a rush. Too generalise wildly, I think that farangs in Thailand fall into three categories of ‘love’:
If you are in LOVE with the idea of living/retiring in Thailand = then live here for a while without committing to anything (house, car, etc.) to see if you really like it.
If you are in LOVE with the idea having a Thai wife (young and beautiful, of course) = that’s fine but why rush into committing to one lady. Take your time, you’re spoilt for choice.
If you came on holiday to Walking Street (ahem, ... I mean holiday to Thailand) and ended up falling in LOVE with one specific Thai Lady. I’ll admit it, like me, love at first lap dance (ahem .. I mean love at first glance) = then that’s fine too, so why not get to know the new ‘love of your life’ better first. I did. I took the time, and I am Very, Very Happy now, seriously no joke I got really lucky. However, she reminds me of that every day.
Den Buut, Do you still agree with me today ?
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Ofcourse bravo1
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There was me thinking you lot are bored with this topic! You have managed to nearly fill another page.
Thank you all very much for your helpful advice and sharing your experiences. There is obviously no right or wrong answer. It is obvious that the decision is all mine and depends on how much I love my Girlfriend and how much I want to be accepted into a very traditional enormous Thai family. I feel comfortable and safe in the knowledge that I'm not going to be fleeced (to much!).
I look forward to meeting some of you folks over a beer (or two) in one of the ale houses advertising on here in the near future!
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Like you say Tommo ... everybody knows about it and should stay of it but then everybody I ever "warned" said : "but my girlfriend is different" ... and when I hear them say this I know it is time for me to shut up because they have "lost" it and are ready to taken to the cleaners ... and I don't care anymore about the cleaned out farangs anymore : som nam na ... I have even been asked by some thai lady to help them clean out the farang for a nice percentage ... but untill now I have refrained from it ... why I don't know ... they are going to cleaned out anyway, why not grab a percentage of it ?!?!?!?
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There is good and bad everywhere, that's just life. As one who has been to 38 countries, working in most of them and living in some I'd rather be here than anywhere else! It just surprises me when I hear of farangs being ripped off, perhaps they met them online or in a bar down south! I also feel more than uncomfortable when I look around and see a young cute Thai woman with a man old enough to her grandfather and looking like rigormortice has set in, if it goes wrong it's because you invited it to!
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Please note that each one of us are being seen from time to time by some people (who think they know something about Thai ladies) the EXACT way you are talking about 'sneaky' gf/wifes and everybody think their WIFE IS DIFFERENT! scatter icon_heart
*LOVE.
Anyway, back to the point,
I like to look at people as individuals and not generalize people just because they fit to some stereotype in my head.
People are people and should be treated this way, A person that is not loyal to his partner is also not loyal to himself and you wouldn't want to share life with such a person anyway.
People who are picking up girls from certain establishments in 'sin city' need to expect complications even if the girl has good base of character, the life experience she had in her life will not make things easier....
Many of these girls are seeing money as love because when you pick a girl you have to pay because you like her/want her so logically this frame is still in their mind.
Do you love me? pay!
moneysmile
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I think at this stage we all seem to be saying the same thing. Sinsod: Thats the way they do it in Thailand, up to you if you want to do it too, and there are good and bad people everywhere, thats the chance you take.
But just to show the new guys a more optomistic view and for the Record: My wife was a go-go dancer in Pattaya (U know how that go's). I can't lie about where we met, even here in Ireland as some of my closer friends were with me when we all fell drunkenly through the door of the bar where she worked. I had been to Thailand many times before that (all over, not just Sin City) and up to the point of meeting her I would have said that ALL farangs sending money over to Thai ladies, building houses, helping Pa's sick buffalo's, whistle etc. were all fools without exception. Now, all I can say is that either I was wrong then, or I have joined those fools. But I am a happy fool, so as we say in Ireland Fcuk the Begrudgers.
Specifically on Sinsod, we had a very big party, the whole village (and more) turned up and I made sure everybody was well fed and whiskeyed, invited the local cops, village head man etc all sitting down next to me trying to improve their English. At the counting the money bit, I had about 4 baht in gold (that I was going to buy anyway for her mother) and whatever I had in the house which was 30,000 baht in cash. Not much, but I did this on purpose. It raised some eyebrows in the village but we didn't care, Wife's family just told the other villagers that this is not what we do in Ireland, but that they are happy that I am a good Man and will take care of them. When all was done, I started to get really pissed off at the comments (that im not supposed to understand) from the other villagers about the small Sinsod, So I took her Dad shopping and Bought him a new four door Dmax with all the extras. That shut the village up.
Admin, What about an anonimous pole where members can vote where they met their GF's/Wives/Boyfriends/whatever:
Bar / Go-go / Massage parlour / while working outside Thailand / in my home country / over the internet / in Buriram / Introduction by friend / while working together in Thailand / and any other options you can think of.
What do you think ?, it might be interesting.
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Al least an honnest man !!!!
Paddyram, my hat to you for stating the obvious.
If you have the means use them and don't begrudge the locals and make them "loose" face by bettering them ...
Most "farang" should crawl under a stone and never show up again ... bunch of cheap charlies ... when they are in Sin City or in another place of they are the great big spenders with the biggest mouth of all : "I know everything about the thai way" ... but once they are home they are the most tight "bastards" with no respect for any thai ...
This will hopefully be my last remark regarding this topic ...
May you live long and prosperous ...
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I've only ever been to sin city once for a few hours and that was enough. Never been to Puket and only go to Bangkok on business. Met my wife in the Middle East, she worked in the gym of a very good international hotel and I was the training manager of an HSE training Institute. Got married there as we had so many friends, people came from 13 different countries and a full page in the newspaper, The Ambassador and his wife also attended. We had a few big parties back in Nangrong at the family farm.
Wherever or whatever, if you are both happy that's all that matters!"
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Wherever or whatever, if you are both happy that's all that matters!"
That pretty much sums up this thread for me.
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Thanks Dundeemk6,
So Admin what do you think about that pole on how we met our partners ?
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Thanks Dundeemk6,
So Admin what do you think about that pole on how we met our partners ?
thumbup Done. VOTE! love1
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Thanks Almog
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Please note that each one of us are being seen from time to time by some people (who think they know something about Thai ladies) the EXACT way you are talking about 'sneaky' gf/wifes and everybody think their WIFE IS DIFFERENT! scatter icon_heart
*LOVE.
No..what we are saying is that women are like closed book which is hard to understand. Add to that the cultural difference, partial blindness caused by love, our view of others' should be treated nicely and many other factors. All this creates more confusion and a few times some people take advantage of the situation.
Mind you, this happens both ways. You will hear many stories about farang taking advantage of girls too.
Another aspect of this is realism. Sin Sod is a long standing tradition in Thai society and we are asked to follow it. Some of us can negotiate it and get away with it, while others follow the traditional path of paying and leaving it with MIL.
Upto you. :p
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In Europe, USA, Australia etc. where most of us come from a girls wedding day is something most of them have dreamed about since they were little girls playing with their dolls they want it to be as perfect as it can be for them, Thai girls are no different in that respect.
I feel if you are going to marry a Thai girl or any girl her wishes beliefs and traditions should be respected after all it’s her big day and if you love her enough to marry her then you should try to make it as perfect as you can for her.
Sin Sod may be alien to us but it is part of her tradition and part of the wedding ceremony. While some of us may feel we are being taken advantage that is not always the case in many cases it’s just for show and is returned to the bride and groom after the wedding.
Every wedding is different everybody’s circumstances are different and what appears to be happening on the surface is not always what actually happens.
For instance at some of the Hi So weddings in Bangkok there is a million or million’s of baht on the table that does not necessarily mean the money is kept by the bride’s parents or even that the groom has provided the money, in a lot of cases the two family’s have provided the money and take it back or give it back after the wedding, It’s all about “face” understand that and your halfway there.
Times are changing traditions are changing in the west it is traditional for the bride’s parents to pay for the wedding these days due to the high cost often running into many thousands it is often shared.
For the majority of us the girls we marry mostly come from a very poor background and family, her parents want to give their daughter a big wedding it gives them “face” which may not be important to us but it is to them, so if you can help them to do that you will gain a lot or respect from your future family and your new wife will love you even more for it.
Put things in perspective get your future wife on your side and negotiate remember the wedding is just the start of your life together and her family will then be your family as well it doesn’t end with the wedding.
Getting married costs money whether you are in Thailand or back in your own country personally after experiencing both I would much rather have a Thai wedding though it should be said for those that do not know I am talking about a wedding party in the village with the monks and everything.
The actual legal marriage is done at the Ampurs office which cost very little the letter from your embassy and translation costs a lot more.
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I agree totally that if you marry a girl from another country you must abide by her customs and beliefs. I think what has been brought here is not the true meaning of Sin Sod but the abuse of it!
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Sin Sot a definition?
OK here goes. It is difficult to gain a definition of this in Thailand. It is not a legal requirement but neither is it illegal!
It came to Thailand with Buddhism and of course the Indian influence. The dowry plays a large part in Indian culture and society, many Indian women have been murdered because of it. Anyway, it grew in Thailand and gradually got accepted by Northern Tribes. However, with the influx of Chinese it became more organised and businesslike (surprise surprise).
There are many different forms of sin sot throughout the world but one thing they all agree on is that the money was based upon the value of the virgin girl leaving a family. No claim on on dowry or sin sod is made for a second marriage unless the first was childless and anulled. So, there never has been sin sod for second marriages and where there are children from the first marriage, this has been added in recent decades by the demand for Thai brides!
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In Europe, USA, Australia etc. where most of us come from a girls wedding day is something most of them have dreamed about since they were little girls playing with their dolls they want it to be as perfect as it can be for them, Thai girls are no different in that respect.
I feel if you are going to marry a Thai girl or any girl her wishes beliefs and traditions should be respected after all it’s her big day and if you love her enough to marry her then you should try to make it as perfect as you can for her.
Sin Sod may be alien to us but it is part of her tradition and part of the wedding ceremony. While some of us may feel we are being taken advantage that is not always the case in many cases it’s just for show and is returned to the bride and groom after the wedding.
Every wedding is different everybody’s circumstances are different and what appears to be happening on the surface is not always what actually happens.
For instance at some of the Hi So weddings in Bangkok there is a million or million’s of baht on the table that does not necessarily mean the money is kept by the bride’s parents or even that the groom has provided the money, in a lot of cases the two family’s have provided the money and take it back or give it back after the wedding, It’s all about “face” understand that and your halfway there.
Times are changing traditions are changing in the west it is traditional for the bride’s parents to pay for the wedding these days due to the high cost often running into many thousands it is often shared.
For the majority of us the girls we marry mostly come from a very poor background and family, her parents want to give their daughter a big wedding it gives them “face” which may not be important to us but it is to them, so if you can help them to do that you will gain a lot or respect from your future family and your new wife will love you even more for it.
Put things in perspective get your future wife on your side and negotiate remember the wedding is just the start of your life together and her family will then be your family as well it doesn’t end with the wedding.
Getting married costs money whether you are in Thailand or back in your own country personally after experiencing both I would much rather have a Thai wedding though it should be said for those that do not know I am talking about a wedding party in the village with the monks and everything.
The actual legal marriage is done at the Ampurs office which cost very little the letter from your embassy and translation costs a lot more.
This is exactly what I wanted to hear! Thank you very much
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The best marriage at the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcusk1s3no0&feature=player_embedded#at=13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcusk1s3no0&feature=player_embedded#at=13)
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Why would anyone consider paying any amount to compensate the parents of their 'loved' one for raising her??
Fcuk that, they had the shga, let them foot the bill.
The reason I refuse to marry is sin sod, at any amount, even if I get it back after the 'culture' show.
Its not our culture and it is a ridiculous and insidious practice.
Just my opinion.
Anyone considering paying 2m sin sot is either a troll or a half-wit.
Plenty of both around too!!
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I'll second that Dennis.
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The best marriage at the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcusk1s3no0&feature=player_embedded#at=13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcusk1s3no0&feature=player_embedded#at=13)
What a load of rubbish!! i
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I'll second that Dennis.
I'll go with that too Dennis
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10 years ago i paid 80,000 baht for the marriage,it was a great day everyone enjoyed them self,and as for me one of the best days of my life,ask yourself how much would a marriage cost you from where you come from. congrats
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UPDATE
Well i started this post in 2011, thought i would update what has happened to me , but first a little about myself , i was married for 20 happy years to a country girl from victoria, Australia , my wife had an operation on her leg, came home to recover , one one morning she got up went to the toilet came back and sat on the edge of the bed and said " i feel sick ", by the time i got to the corner of the bed she collasped into my arms and died approx 40 mins later with 4 paramedics in the room , i had to tell my son , his mum had died , terrible day , that was in 2006, i had mate that took his family to thailand asked me to come , no thanks , he asked again later , i accepted took my son with me had a great time , i meet a thai girl , in 2008 , as you know from the start of the post 2 million was asked for , some one said , is she a movie star .
Some said take your time , thank you for the advice , i did , been back and forth to thailand now 18 times , my gf came to Australia for over a year in one stretch and a 3 month period , we were married last october 2012 in bkk , and the monk wedding coming up , the price for sin sod has lowered some what , not from my doing , between 600 thousand and 650 , i do disagree with paying , as some have said its like paying to get married, which goes against western thinking , but others have said its the thai way , up to the individual ,Wherever or whatever, if you are both happy that's all that matters!"
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Good luck to you and Mrs Rufus. Glad you took your time and didn't rush into a marriage.
No comment on the sin sod other than to say it is a personal matter.
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Congratulations.
Life is a series of personal choices with happiness the prime objective.
I remain firmly in Dennis's camp on this one.
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Don't forget that Thais have to pay also, I recently saw several hundred thousand Baht being counted out on to a silver tray. Catches your attention.
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Don't forget that Thais have to pay also, I recently saw several hundred thousand Baht being counted out on to a silver tray. Catches your attention.
Yes i actually saw this happen at her brothers wedding over 200,000 thb counted , it was a great day , everybody happy , may be one day i will live in thailand , i get bit sick of the heat every day, day in day out , dont know how you guys cope with it , plenty of beer no doubt. take care all.
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Don't forget that Thais have to pay also, I recently saw several hundred thousand Baht being counted out on to a silver tray. Catches your attention.
So they should - it is their culture/practice.
My opinion is that the Farang should not be obliged to do the same - especially as they very often bring more to the table i.e. higher income support plus, usually, a house.
I have nothing against spending your money on a wedding party - that is personal choice and you go in with your eyes open knowing that spongers and hangers-on will absorb at least 50% of the expenditure.
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Come clean CO-Co : you know I had to pay 100.000 euro for sinsot and another 50.000 euro for the wedding and you said it was cheap at that you had promised your beloved at least double of it when your - oeps her - house would be finished !!! What a bunch of cc's here !!!! Nick would be ashamed of this attitude !!! I'll punish you all again in Siem Reap !!!
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Don't forget that Thais have to pay also, I recently saw several hundred thousand Baht being counted out on to a silver tray. Catches your attention.
I hope it wasn't stolen money.
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Guy in the village my MIL lives was getting married.. On the morning of the wedding everybody was told it was cancelled as he hasnt got enough sin sod.. Losing face bigtime haha
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Guy in the village my MIL lives was getting married.. On the morning of the wedding everybody was told it was cancelled as he hasnt got enough sin sod.. Losing face bigtime haha
A couple of songs that fit the situation:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMwZsFKIXa8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu8KFlfzk3Y
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I read with interest the many posts on this subject. I met an Issan girl about 10 years ago back when you could go onto yahoo chat and see who was online and strike up a conversation. I chatted with many girls and chose the one I thought was best. Her family lived in Khon Khean at a house with dirt floor, no windows, termite ridden. For me to be able to stay for any amount of time at that home, I had to build a "room" with western toilet! I did. After 3 years or so of marriage, I built a very nice home on property that was the family farm. The brother had the farm and wife had the current house, so I purchased the land from him and built the house, a cost of nearly 2 mil bht. I also built a guest house for her brother and the MIL stayed at the new house to keep an eye on it. It was known that this would be our retirement place.
When we were at the embasy getting the visa for her to come to USA, we met a young girl (24) who was getting her visa to come to USA just a few miles from where I lived. She and my wife became friends.
Now dont you know, just as soon as each of these two obtained their US citizenship, each called to thier respective husbands and said "I got an apartment and I am not coming back."
Its a plot fellas, as long as you know it going in, then no worries.
She got the house and land of course, I kept my retirement funds and home in USA. Now, at 50 I am trying to save up again to be able to build something much smaller but cozy on the new Thai wife's land. But that will not happen until I can come live in it myself.
As to the sin sod, the new wife knew up front that I was totally against it. I showed money at the engagement, but in order to save face I payed the catering bill. (It was good, and not too many people.) At the wedding, the family really wanted a live band. I donated 80.000 bht and my goodness, live band with dancing girls, 25 tables and catered food, you could not get that for 10 times the amount in America.
So maybe there was no dowery, but I feel comfortable with givng the money for the party. I had a great time, it did not break the bank, and everyone was happy.
Oh, and with this wife, there is a prenup, my house is sole and seperate, but when I die, she will be well taken care of....(shhhhh, dont tell her.)
Sorry for being long winded, just thought my experience was unique, only to find this site and see ..... it is all part of the master plan!!
Be careful and informed!!!!!
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Maybe you need this poll with the ability to post more than one answer as how many are still on the 'first' relationship. Not many, I would guess. 30% met ladies from a bar may be an indicator to suggest my idea might be right???
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Sorry to hear deputy dave , risk you take with trying to judge that person i suppose , you have to access in your own mind how that person will turn out , i choose to live in my wifes village off and on , not that i could communicate with any of them , trust is something that worries all of us to some degree, my wife is paying for the monk wedding , i bought a car for her quite a while ago , we agreed to keep it in the family so her brother is paying her over a period of time , i have not had to come up with any money so far , except for the sin sod, if it was western they the family would have to pay the lot .
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I'm not trying to be dismissive, or flippant, about the sad stories from guys that have been cleaned out, but relationships and marriages are a 50/50 prospect in most countries nowdays, so I put a slightly different spin on my relationship with my TGF.
I suspect that many of us are in Thailand for two reasons. It's very affordable to live here, and the women are beautiful.
OF COURSE, the Thai girl's see farangs as an opportunity to better their lifestyle. Blind Freddy should be able to see that !! Let's be honest, what 30yo woman would be interested in a 50-60yo man from an unknown culture, unless there was something in it for her.
I came to Thailand to meet a much younger "internet girl". I came here with my eyes wide open, knowing full well that if I was to have a beautiful, intelligent, sexy, younger girlfriend ... somewhere down the track it would cost.
Just as it would have back home ...
I've been here for nearly 1 year in a fantastic relationship. It's cost me NOWHERE near as much as I would have spent trying to maintain a relationship back home with some wrinkled, menopausal, fat cow.
Let's face it. How much did you spend trying to satisfy your ex wife, or girlfriend, or both, back home ? Holidays abroad, flash cars, fashion clothes & shoes, expensive jewellery, flowers, extensions to the house because she wanted a "sun room" , endless knick knacks to make your beloved love you just a little bit more.
Cost a truckload eh !!
And what happened ? Ultimately, all for nothing.
Now ... here we are in Thailand, chasing gorgeous 20 year younger women.
Personally, I'm ok knowing that I'm footing the bill for most things that my girl and I do together. Hell ... I was doing the same back home anyway ... at 10 times the price !!
I look upon the money spent here as the happy cost of spending 24/7 with a beautiful little lady half my age. I like waking up next to her every morning. I like the fact that there is someone out there thinking about me during the day. It's nice.
Do I trust her ?? ......... yes I do. Am I naive ?? ... maybe ... time will tell. But I'm living the dream finding out.
And I'm getting twice the woman for 1/10th the cost of being back home.
So ... when I read disaster stories, I try to put them into context. I think ... what if things do go "belly up" for me ?
Well ... it will still be bucket loads cheaper than the "crash and burns" back home. And just another chapter in the book !!
I guess the often quoted "never spend more than you can afford to lose" is so true ... but that applies everywhere ... not just in Thailand with Thai girls.
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smooth - brilliant post - you have summed up my life in a nutshell :)
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smooth - brilliant post - you have summed up my life in a nutshell :)
Agreed (not about Crusty's life) 555 jumping8
I think it is lot to do with keeping a contingency plan and maybe not having all your eggs in one basket case ( or Thai House)
Glad things are running Smooth2)
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It's all about stopping saying things like "Thai wife" or "Thai girlfriend". A wife is a wife.
It's all about treating her as you would like to be treated.
If you found out that your wife was sh&@gging someone in a Karaoke or somewhere how would you feel? If you found out that your wife had "contingency plans" then how would you feel.
I see some guys that appear to be here for some kind of "holiday marriage".
Relationships are two ways.
I have been married, first and only time in my life, for nearly 13 years. Always dealt with things together with respect for each other.
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It's all about stopping saying things like "Thai wife" or "Thai girlfriend". A wife is a wife.
It's all about treating her as you would like to be treated.
If you found out that your wife was sh&@gging someone in a Karaoke or somewhere how would you feel? If you found out that your wife had "contingency plans" then how would you feel.
I see some guys that appear to be here for some kind of "holiday marriage".
Relationships are two ways.
I have been married, first and only time in my life, for nearly 13 years. Always dealt with things together with respect for each other.
I agree wholeheartedly with your post and its great you work thing out this way, Respect.
BUT, do you think attitudes/priorities are the same in Thailand as in your home country then?
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It's all about stopping saying things like "Thai wife" or "Thai girlfriend". A wife is a wife.
It's all about treating her as you would like to be treated.
If you found out that your wife was sh&@gging someone in a Karaoke or somewhere how would you feel? If you found out that your wife had "contingency plans" then how would you feel.
I see some guys that appear to be here for some kind of "holiday marriage".
Relationships are two ways.
I have been married, first and only time in my life, for nearly 13 years. Always dealt with things together with respect for each other.
bravo1 Starman bravo1.
I read some of these posts with utter disbelief.
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It's all about stopping saying things like "Thai wife" or "Thai girlfriend". A wife is a wife.
It's all about treating her as you would like to be treated.
If you found out that your wife was sh&@gging someone in a Karaoke or somewhere how would you feel? If you found out that your wife had "contingency plans" then how would you feel.
I see some guys that appear to be here for some kind of "holiday marriage".
Relationships are two ways.
I have been married, first and only time in my life, for nearly 13 years. Always dealt with things together with respect for each other.
I agree wholeheartedly with your post and its great you work thing out this way, Respect.
BUT, do you think attitudes/priorities are the same in Thailand as in your home country then?
You don't have to keep making a distinction between the two if your working together,that's the whole point.
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It's all about stopping saying things like "Thai wife" or "Thai girlfriend". A wife is a wife.
It's all about treating her as you would like to be treated.
If you found out that your wife was sh&@gging someone in a Karaoke or somewhere how would you feel? If you found out that your wife had "contingency plans" then how would you feel.
I see some guys that appear to be here for some kind of "holiday marriage".
Relationships are two ways.
I have been married, first and only time in my life, for nearly 13 years. Always dealt with things together with respect for each other.
I agree wholeheartedly with your post and its great you work thing out this way, Respect.
BUT, do you think attitudes/priorities are the same in Thailand as in your home country then?
Yes.
As stated in my previous post.
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It's all about stopping saying things like "Thai wife" or "Thai girlfriend". A wife is a wife.
It's all about treating her as you would like to be treated.
If you found out that your wife was sh&@gging someone in a Karaoke or somewhere how would you feel? If you found out that your wife had "contingency plans" then how would you feel.
I see some guys that appear to be here for some kind of "holiday marriage".
Relationships are two ways.
I have been married, first and only time in my life, for nearly 13 years. Always dealt with things together with respect for each other.
Starman ... I agree with your post. You are in an enviable and priviledged position to make your comments ... having been happily married only once for 13 years. Well done.
Unfortunately, many of us here have had previous failed marriages, and whether we admit it or not, there is always some emotional baggage attached to that. You REALLY do carry it forever. It makes you more cautious the 2nd time around.
I give my girl 100% commitment to making our relationship work. I've burned many bridges back home to be here full time. Hopefully it will lead to marriage. That was my plan from the start. I would never consider it a holiday marriage.
But, having had the rug pulled out from under me before, it does change your values a little. Hopefully you will never know what I'm talking about !! (meaning you will stay happily married forever ... and not be a divorcee with a slightly different view to marriage like many of us)
I just wish I had come here as a 25 year old with the world at my feet !!
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It's all about stopping saying things like "Thai wife" or "Thai girlfriend". A wife is a wife.
It's all about treating her as you would like to be treated.
If you found out that your wife was sh&@gging someone in a Karaoke or somewhere how would you feel? If you found out that your wife had "contingency plans" then how would you feel.
I see some guys that appear to be here for some kind of "holiday marriage".
Relationships are two ways.
I have been married, first and only time in my life, for nearly 13 years. Always dealt with things together with respect for each other.
Starman ... I agree with your post. You are in an enviable and priviledged position to make your comments ... having been happily married only once for 13 years. Well done.
Unfortunately, many of us here have had previous failed marriages, and whether we admit it or not, there is always some emotional baggage attached to that. You REALLY do carry it forever. It makes you more cautious the 2nd time around.
I give my girl 100% commitment to making our relationship work. I've burned many bridges back home to be here full time. Hopefully it will lead to marriage. That was my plan from the start. I would never consider it a holiday marriage.
But, having had the rug pulled out from under me before, it does change your values a little. Hopefully you will never know what I'm talking about !! (meaning you will stay happily married forever ... and not be a divorcee with a slightly different view to marriage like many of us)
I just wish I had come here as a 25 year old with the world at my feet !!
I fully understand the emotions there must be when entering a relationship, possibly leading to marriage, for the second time.
I am very pleased that you are not differentiating between nationality.
That was my point.
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Smooth I think we are in the same boat....at least paddling up the same river. I agree with you completely.
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I'm not trying to be dismissive, or flippant, about the sad stories from guys that have been cleaned out, but relationships and marriages are a 50/50 prospect in most countries nowdays, so I put a slightly different spin on my relationship with my TGF.
I suspect that many of us are in Thailand for two reasons. It's very affordable to live here, and the women are beautiful.
OF COURSE, the Thai girl's see farangs as an opportunity to better their lifestyle. Blind Freddy should be able to see that !! Let's be honest, what 30yo woman would be interested in a 50-60yo man from an unknown culture, unless there was something in it for her.
I came to Thailand to meet a much younger "internet girl". I came here with my eyes wide open, knowing full well that if I was to have a beautiful, intelligent, sexy, younger girlfriend ... somewhere down the track it would cost.
Just as it would have back home ...
I've been here for nearly 1 year in a fantastic relationship. It's cost me NOWHERE near as much as I would have spent trying to maintain a relationship back home with some wrinkled, menopausal, fat cow.
Let's face it. How much did you spend trying to satisfy your ex wife, or girlfriend, or both, back home ? Holidays abroad, flash cars, fashion clothes & shoes, expensive jewellery, flowers, extensions to the house because she wanted a "sun room" , endless knick knacks to make your beloved love you just a little bit more.
Cost a truckload eh !!
And what happened ? Ultimately, all for nothing.
Now ... here we are in Thailand, chasing gorgeous 20 year younger women.
Personally, I'm ok knowing that I'm footing the bill for most things that my girl and I do together. Hell ... I was doing the same back home anyway ... at 10 times the price !!
I look upon the money spent here as the happy cost of spending 24/7 with a beautiful little lady half my age. I like waking up next to her every morning. I like the fact that there is someone out there thinking about me during the day. It's nice.
Do I trust her ?? ......... yes I do. Am I naive ?? ... maybe ... time will tell. But I'm living the dream finding out.
And I'm getting twice the woman for 1/10th the cost of being back home.
So ... when I read disaster stories, I try to put them into context. I think ... what if things do go "belly up" for me ?
Well ... it will still be bucket loads cheaper than the "crash and burns" back home. And just another chapter in the book !!
I guess the often quoted "never spend more than you can afford to lose" is so true ... but that applies everywhere ... not just in Thailand with Thai girls.
Great outlook, you have a great perspective on life (in my opinion). Wish you the best.
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Everyone is different and everyone needs to decide what they think is acceptable with respect to sin sod. Personally I shake my head in disbelief when someone says they are asked for 2 million baht cash and 10 baht worth of gold. I would not accept that amount, I personally think it is over the top. However, I don't think it is wrong to pay for the food and drink associated with the wedding party (or at least help to defray the total costs) and possibly buy a modest gold chain if you want to. But it is really up to each individual to decide what is right for his circumstance.
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It's all about stopping saying things like "Thai wife" or "Thai girlfriend". A wife is a wife.
It's all about treating her as you would like to be treated.
If you found out that your wife was sh&@gging someone in a Karaoke or somewhere how would you feel? If you found out that your wife had "contingency plans" then how would you feel.
I see some guys that appear to be here for some kind of "holiday marriage".
Relationships are two ways.
I have been married, first and only time in my life, for nearly 13 years. Always dealt with things together with respect for each other.
Starman ... I agree with your post. You are in an enviable and priviledged position to make your comments ... having been happily married only once for 13 years. Well done.
Unfortunately, many of us here have had previous failed marriages, and whether we admit it or not, there is always some emotional baggage attached to that. You REALLY do carry it forever. It makes you more cautious the 2nd time around.
I give my girl 100% commitment to making our relationship work. I've burned many bridges back home to be here full time. Hopefully it will lead to marriage. That was my plan from the start. I would never consider it a holiday marriage.
But, having had the rug pulled out from under me before, it does change your values a little. Hopefully you will never know what I'm talking about !! (meaning you will stay happily married forever ... and not be a divorcee with a slightly different view to marriage like many of us)
I just wish I had come here as a 25 year old with the world at my feet !!
I fully understand the emotions there must be when entering a relationship, possibly leading to marriage, for the second time.
I am very pleased that you are not differentiating between nationality.
That was my point.
I WOULD differentiate between nationally. Call nationality culture if you like, but I would differentiate. Surely, understanding those differences is one of the first steps in developing a mixed-race relationship.
That is not about trust, respect, sharing, 'love' that are all integral to a successful relationship. The fact is that you have to act differently, and treat your partner differently, depending on their own culture and background.
There are, of course, those here on 'holiday marriages' (or at least courtships). The (Thai ;D) GF's sister is referred to by her boyfriend as his "Thai wife". That is mainly because he has remained married in the UK for the last 7 years they have been together. They never spend more than 2 weeks together at any one time. "Holiday marriage" ? - certainly fits the description. Perhaps an ideal arrangement for both parties. She is not unhappy with a detached house, Fortuner and 50,000 Baht a month.
Thailand encourages itself as a "Holiday marriage" destination - that is surely different to most places in the West ?
As an aside, mongers are likely to be mongers in Thailand or their home country - it is just easier here.
As a further aside, reference to 'contingency plans' is probably just the wisdom of someone who has experienced previous relationship failures. I don't see many Darby & Joan clubs in Thailand so it perhaps sensible to consider what you would do if things went 'tit's up' with your current relationship. I fully intend to enjoy another 20 odd harmonious years with my partner - but then I intended the same with my first two wives !!
Contingency plans are just insurance policies and may be as simple as keeping sufficient capital on one side if things do go pear-shaped.
A friend said he would never put all his capital or all his emotion into Thailand. If that is sound logic, I accept it applies to any relationship, anywhere.
I congratulate Steve on the success of his marriage. I think PKC Nick has been married a little longer - I suspect their lifestyles differ somewhat.
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I was at a wedding last year where the Farang gave 1 Mil Baht (heard it was double that).
I have added pictures of it being carried in the wedding, and a close up of the Baht.
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Don't forget the most important thing in Thailand; "Face".
In 2007 when I married in Buriram, I gave a brand new 1,300,000 Baht Honda CRV plus 800,000 baht Sin Sod for my 43 year old divorcee bride.
The cash and car keys were paraded at the wedding to many Oohs and Aahs from the guests.
Sharp intake of breath, sucker, fool, ripped off ? - Not at all.
Much ”Face” was given to my wife and her family.
The 800,000 went straight back into my bank account and we still have the CRV.
Car and wife are now almost 6 years older, but both still in perfect working order with only minimal bodywork deterioration.
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UPDATE
Thought I would update, finally received subclass 309 visa for my wife to stay in Australia, cost was $2660 aud dollars did not put through an agent , my mate did cost him over $3500 aud plus the cost of visa, been a long process but worth it , can come and go as many times as she pleases, nil conditions , can work straight away , with a tax file number , so all is well , I read many times in posts that some of you have to do visa runs every 3 months is this likely to change in the future , bloody bind to go in and out all the time, be interested to know , can one stay for 12 months or longer without a visa run ?
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UPDATE
Thought I would update, finally received subclass 309 visa for my wife to stay in Australia, cost was $2660 aud dollars did not put through an agent , my mate did cost him over $3500 aud plus the cost of visa, been a long process but worth it , can come and go as many times as she pleases, nil conditions , can work straight away , with a tax file number , so all is well , I read many times in posts that some of you have to do visa runs every 3 months is this likely to change in the future , bloody bind to go in and out all the time, be interested to know , can one stay for 12 months or longer without visa run?
If you have an extension to stay based on marriage every 90 days you must report to immigration. If in Australia get yourself a single entry O visa based on marriage and as soon as you get back in Thailand start the conversion over to the extension based on marriage. As a foreigner we have two choices either leave the country every 90 days are report to immigration.. You will need to show either 400k bt in a bank in Thailand in you name only for 60 days or a letter from your embassy in Bangkok that you have an income of 40000 bt per month.
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met a 21 yo lass from rajabaht university udon thani & within a short time of know her she was proposing to me but asked i give her mother 300k bt as a condition i had to agree to or no deal.
moneysmile
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met a 21 yo lass from rajabaht university udon thani & within a short time of know her she was proposing to me but asked i give her mother 300k bt as a condition i had to agree to or no deal.
moneysmile
AND what age are you Sir
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met a 21 yo lass from rajabaht university udon thani & within a short time of know her she was proposing to me but asked i give her mother 300k bt as a condition i had to agree to or no deal.
moneysmile
Chump Chang..Know a local lass that put a price tag of 7.5 million baht on that box lunch. She got it. Yes I was at the Buddha Wedding and what a blow out. moneysmile moneysmile moneysmile moneysmile
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met a 21 yo lass from rajabaht university udon thani & within a short time of know her she was proposing to me but asked i give her mother 300k bt as a condition i had to agree to or no deal.
moneysmile
Take care my friend , as many have advised me on BE , cha cha , slowly slowly, I think to many see a beautiful lady , and give over money, and regret it .
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Gotlost,a relative in law,just got 3m Baht,up front,no mariage date yet.AND 40K a month until he comes over again,a European of some sort.The 3M is for sin sot,but the kicker is she has been married before,and has a child with the ex Thai husband....PS the village is about 30klms from Buriram,and they are all hearing these stories of massive amounts for sin sot,so they want it too!!
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It appears,the sin sot tradition of unmarried,fresh,no kids,is being re written as we watch! stop1
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It seems to me that more and more foreigners really get so desperate to get married they fork out any amount and most of the time to the uggliest b..ch of the village. And then afterwards come crying because they have been cleaned out. Seen it so many times in my 10 years down here and it seems to get worse. The more foreigners come to Lahansai, the more horrorstories I hear.
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Anyone considering paying 2m sin sot is either a troll or a half-wit.
Plenty of both arof thund too!!
I have seen them both and new ones step of the plane every day.
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youre right, i should have used a condom but alas, in the heat of the moment i did her twice before she had to go back to uni for night class.
luckily for me there was no pregnancy claims against me.
i discovered later that she have a professional sportsman bf in bkk & he was a player big time & she was getting even.
met a 21 yo lass from rajabaht university udon thani & within a short time of know her she was proposing to me but asked i give her mother 300k bt as a condition i had to agree to or no deal.
moneysmile
Take care my friend , as many have advised me on BE , cha cha , slowly slowly, I think to many see a beautiful lady , and give over money, and regret it .
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met a 21 yo lass from rajabaht university udon thani & within a short time of know her she was proposing to me but asked i give her mother 300k bt as a condition i had to agree to or no deal.
moneysmile
AND what age are you Sir
im 91 yo
oops i mean im 51yo now but that was back a few years when i did her.
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I like the poll :biggrin:
33% from a bars ( So far ) and some of the others poll sections where their partners worked in some sort of the sex trade. :o
I thought the people in the know keep telling us not to marry Thai prostitues, looks like most are not listening ::)
My take on it is that most guys seem to be able to make their own mind up and wont be told what to do bravo1
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It seems to me that more and more foreigners really get so desperate to get married they fork out any amount and most of the time to the uggliest b..ch of the village. And then afterwards come crying because they have been cleaned out. Seen it so many times in my 10 years down here and it seems to get worse. The more foreigners come to Lahansai, the more horrorstories I hear.
Why pay a small fortune for a manger when you can get a young sexy princess :biggrin:
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Minger******* fking spellcheck..
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I like the poll :biggrin:
33% from a bars ( So far ) and some of the others poll sections where their partners worked in some sort of the sex trade. :o
I thought the people in the know keep telling us not to marry Thai prostitues, looks like most are not listening ::)
My take on it is that most guys seem to be able to make their own mind up and wont be told what to do bravo1
more like 49% from The Hospitality Industry.. cheergirl
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If you include go go its 42%
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Make that 43% with massage hahahah
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Make that 43% with massage hahahah
59% if you include Discos and the Internet thumbup
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I thought the discos and the Internet where the good girls are :biggrin:
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I thought the discos and the Internet where the good girls are :biggrin:
They are all good :biggrin:
Until they are bad bigcry
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I thought the discos and the Internet where the good girls are :biggrin:
internet is where the local lass got her buyer for 7.5 million on the box lunch. icon_heart
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It's idiots like that who pay 7.5 million that give us normal thinking guys a bad name
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It's idiots like that who pay 7.5 million that give us normal thinking guys a bad name
Yea. Its called Cheep Charlie. :D
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It's not just the idiots giving away 7.5M Toffo,they set a new standard by not thinking first,the Thai telegraph starts,and then they ALL want huge amounts of folding.
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It's not just the idiots giving away 7.5M Toffo,they set a new standard by not thinking first,the Thai telegraph starts,and then they ALL want huge amounts of folding.
I guaranty that her running mate is looking for nothing less. I would be more than glade to introduce you to her. I'm asking for a 10% finders fee. pray1
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Great Gotlost,you get the girls,and I'll get the dumbest farangs I can find,you and I get 10% and make a fortune Mate cheergirl
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WHY IS IT SO
That in a western wedding the brides mother and father put the money up for there daughter to get married , I know sometimes the other side helps out , bec its expensive , with the reception , meals , cars , etc .
Why in Thailand is it that you pay, for the privilege to marry does anyone know , how was it introduced HISTORY wise that is , be interested to know .
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WHY IS IT SO
That in a western wedding the brides mother and father put the money up for there daughter to get married , I know sometimes the other side helps out , bec its expensive , with the reception , meals , cars , etc .
Why in Thailand is it that you pay, for the privilege to marry does anyone know , how was it introduced HISTORY wise that is , be interested to know .
Maybe it best to talk to your partner about this one. :biggrin:
My take on it is,girls get the land after their parents death and boy have they dowry paid for them by their parents.
In my wifes family the grandmother had 4 daughter ,so when she died the 20 rai was split up between the 4 daughters plus the 2 Rai plot in the Village was also split up 4 ways between the daughters.The sons ( wife's uncle's ) all had their dowry's paid by their mother and ended up with land and houses that where then pasted down by the wifes parents.
I hope that make scene ::)
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BTW rufusredtail , it's not just Thailand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry
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Basic rule : do not play the game ... do not get into the game ... just say you live on a montly stipend ... no reserves and they will accept it ... just keep the money slowly flowing on a daily basis and the problem will never arise and if it does : run away as quickly as possible ...
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UPDATE
I thought it about time for an update , still happily married , my wife does not like the cold of winter in Australia , understandable , now works in the hairdressing shop, travels there and back by tram, earning considerable more than in Thailand , does not have an Australian license as yet, deal is if you obtain a license, will purchase you a car , so has been beavering away reading the road rule book , loves gardening , and I have learnt a lot about plants , have built a huge garden bed and a hot house, complains that Thai basil and chillies not survive through the winter .
I am amazed how my wife has adapted to Australian way of life, after living most of her years in Thailand , we found a Thai temple close by and have made friends there, many Australians with Thai wives attend , most come on, or the closet day to full moon. I eat a lot more rice these days , and pork , does not like beef much or shark , which I crave for sometimes , I enjoy a glass of red most nights, tried to make me give it up , no chance , some renovations are on the schedule , have finished an outside veranda much to her delight , bathroom is next , followed by the bedroom, that's about it , take care all , enjoy the posts that are put up .
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Good on you Rufus! seems things are working well for you.Sometimes I think that a lot of Thai women,especially from poor backgrounds,can adapt far more easily in a new country then we adapt in Thailand,always suprises with Thai Ladies.I assume because of the trams,your in Victoria/Melbourne/Dandenong etc,certainly gets cold sometimes,good luck,keep the reports coming. congrats
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UPDATE
I thought it was time for an update , the renovation of the bathroom is now finished all new floor and walls and shower screen, new vanity cabinet and wall cabinet, the reason for the upgrade was that I bought out three of my wife sisters , for a month they had never been on holiday in there life , never been on an aeroplane , the husbands were not happy , they thought it was only for a week, at the last minute they were told it was for 28 days, all had great time visiting various places ,went to many op shops (which are not in Thailand ), did not like the cold weather wood fire was lit on a few times , visited the penguins coming up the beach, went Melbourne for the day , all in all had a wonderful time , house is very quiet now .
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UPDATE
I thought it was time so much water under the bridge as they say , have now renovated a whole bedroom to a hairdressing room , polished floorboards ,big mirrors, cabinets, wall vinyl, painted all , bought hairdressing chair , installed sinks etc , my wife now works from home,still happily married everyday makes me laugh, I am thinking of retiring next year , only work 4 days now , may be cut that down to 3 days , see how we go , i made a deal if you get your license , buy you a new car , well i lost that bet , now has a mazda 3 , gets out and about now in between haircuts , so all in all still goig well , i did forget our anniversary, which didn't go down to well , off to Thailand next week to see her mum and many others . Take care all . Rufusredtail derived from a canary i had great singer and roller.
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Sounds like some great projects. Keep happy!!
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UPDATE
Hello to all that read this post.
Have just come back from Buriram, spent 5 days in BKK getting teeth implants , dam site cheaper than Australia (where they are just ripping you off ) had a quote to go into hospital and have the first stage done just to put 4 inserts in no teeth $9680 dollars , and the equilivant to have the teeth all up around $19500, price in bkk 120,000 thb and about the same for the teeth saving me a whack , for the wife wants to build a house in buriram , costing around 2 million thb all up, starting sometime towards the end of next year , be interested to know if anyone on expats has had any dealings with BANDEE ARCHITECT BURIRAM BRANCH,
Take care RUFUSREDTAIL (Name of a dead Canary was a terrific whistler)
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UPDATE
Well its cold here and raining , had a hot summer, and i hear its very hot in Thailand , coming over in June , July for three weeks to visit family and to get my new teeth in BKK, i have retired somewhat been working two days a week for the last six months , will be 67 this January , have plenty of projects to do , my wife is at school three days a week doing certificate 3 for hairdressing , actually won two awards at the Victorian hairdressing championships in Melbourne, a 1st place and a 3rd , very happy , i have now built an aluminium hot house 8.5 lm long by 2.45 lm wide , my wife has now filled it completely with various plants seedlings that will not survive the winter here, marriage is still going strong, and i, or should i say we are enjoying LIFE . Take care talk soon
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UPDATE
Well i was due to go to Thailand on the 7 may 2020 , but my flight got cancelled , due to covid 19 , issued a refund for a later booking , i am now fully retired , and have been home now for six weeks Australia has had a lock down in place , only 97 deaths for the whole country , our government jumped on it quickly , told to stay home , can only go out for food , exercise , work , which limits you , many people are waiting for restrictions to be eased which will come to Victoria this Monday . My wife has now fully qualified as a cert 3 in hair dressing , works part time at a shop, and at home as well.
Still happily married , enjoying life together , been a great experience , my only complaint would be sometimes there is a lack of communication , what you think has been said to you , is wrong , not explained properly , have you experienced this , has happened many times , may be its a western thing , we like things to be up front .
Have now taken up bee keeping have 7 hives , all from wild bees caught , interesting hobby , i built a hive 40 years ago in woodwork at school , now has bees in it , i build all my own hives bodies, bottom boards , covers , just buy the frames , extracted 53 kilos this year , veryyyyy sweet , gave a lot to friends , sold 20 kilos in jars , i can be an expensive hobby by the time you buy everything you need.
That's about it for now , take care , dont take risks with the virus , one good thing it doesent last long in humid weather if some coughs or sneezes. take care . Rufusredtail
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UPDATE
Well i was due to go to Thailand on the 7 may 2020 , but my flight got cancelled , due to covid 19 , issued a refund for a later booking , i am now fully retired , and have been home now for six weeks Australia has had a lock down in place , only 97 deaths for the whole country , our government jumped on it quickly , told to stay home , can only go out for food , exercise , work , which limits you , many people are waiting for restrictions to be eased which will come to Victoria this Monday . My wife has now fully qualified as a cert 3 in hair dressing , works part time at a shop, and at home as well.
Still happily married , enjoying life together , been a great experience , my only complaint would be sometimes there is a lack of communication , what you think has been said to you , is wrong , not explained properly , have you experienced this , has happened many times , may be its a western thing , we like things to be up front .
Have now taken up bee keeping have 7 hives , all from wild bees caught , interesting hobby , i built a hive 40 years ago in woodwork at school , now has bees in it , i build all my own hives bodies, bottom boards , covers , just buy the frames , extracted 53 kilos this year , veryyyyy sweet , gave a lot to friends , sold 20 kilos in jars , i can be an expensive hobby by the time you buy everything you need.
That's about it for now , take care , dont take risks with the virus , one good thing it doesent last long in humid weather if some coughs or sneezes. take care . Rufusredtail
+1 party3 cool1